026 | You Can’t Hustle Your Way to Happiness: Your Mental Health Matters!

Culture wants us to buy into the myth that if we just earn another dollar, we will be happy.  

What if I told you that taking intentional rest and optimizing your mental health could be the key to unlocking your full potential as an entrepreneur? 

In the latest episode of the Vital Strategies Podcast, host Patrick Lonergan dives into the world of mental health with licensed therapist, counselor, and mental health coach, Amanda Asay. Drawing from their personal experiences, Patrick and Amanda offer insights from the viewpoint of entrepreneurs, challenging the common belief that achieving financial success or reaching the next level will automatically lead to happiness.  

They discuss topics such as understanding one’s level of tolerance to deal with the challenges of life, identifying mental health baselines, and developing tools to navigate the ups and downs of emotions. Patrick and Amanda also explore the relationship between stress and intentional rest, challenging limiting beliefs around rest and highlighting the inability to “hustle” one’s way to happiness. 

Key Takeaways: 

  • Mental health is a continuous journey, not a final destination 
  • Exploring the myth that financial success will make us happy. 
  • Taking proactive steps is crucial when struggling with mental health 
  • Developing tools to navigate emotional ups and downs that everyone will face in life no matter your financial or business success. 
  • Challenge limiting beliefs around rest. 

Listeners are encouraged to connect with Amanda through her website and explore how practices like mindfulness, including their shared experience with Lego, can play a transformative role in mental health maintenance. 



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Sponsored by Vital Wealth    

Music by Cephas    

Audio, video, and show notes produced by Podcast Abundance   

Research and copywriting by Victoria O’Brien 

[00:00:00] Patrick: Welcome back, everyone, to another episode of the Vital Strategies podcast, where we’re dedicated to helping entrepreneurs that make over a million dollars a year, pay less tax, build more wealth and live a great life. I’m your host, Patrick Launerdin, and I’m thrilled to have you joining us here today. We have a special episode this week.
[00:00:22] Patrick: May is Mental Health Awareness Month, so we’re going to dig into how to optimize our mental health. What if I told you that deliberate rest could serve as the catalyst for unlocking your entrepreneurial potential? The scriptures tell us that the Sabbath, or day of rest, wasn’t made for God, but was designed for man.
[00:00:38] Patrick: We need rest. Entrepreneur culture says that we should just keep grinding, and we’ll rest when we’re dead. We’re going to discuss how we can’t hustle our way to happiness. Today, we’re diving deep into a topic that’s important to every entrepreneur, mental wellness, and redefining success. Joining me for this insightful conversation is Amanda Acey, a licensed therapist.
[00:00:59] Patrick: counselor, and my personal mental health coach, Amanda brings a wealth of expertise in helping individuals navigate the complexities of mental health. And together we’ll be exploring how prioritizing our wellbeing is not just compatible, but essential for achieving our entrepreneurial goals. Let’s dive into today’s episode with Amanda AC.
[00:01:18] Patrick: Amanda, thank you for joining us here today. I am really excited about this conversation. I think it’s something that we don’t talk enough about in society in general, especially as entrepreneurs. We think we got all the stuff figured out. So I just appreciate all the value you’ve brought to my life, my family’s life.
[00:01:35] Patrick: You’re my counselor, therapist. I don’t know what you like to refer to yourself as. I tell people I go to counseling, but thank you very much for joining us here
[00:01:44] Amanda: today.
[00:01:46] Patrick: So I’d like to get into just talking through. And we, we’ve had some discussions around this and we can start this really wherever you want.
[00:01:54] Patrick: But I feel like as entrepreneurs, we feel like we’ve got it all figured out. But I think our mental health is a lot like our physical health, right? Like there’s, I’m not well, right? Mentally. And we need to get out of that sort of, uh, we’ll call it crisis state where I can move to I’m doing okay. And that’s fine.
[00:02:10] Patrick: I’m, I’m navigating life fairly well to like, I’ve optimized my mental health and I really can’t handle all of the things that life’s going to throw me. So, yeah, I’d like to. I’m going to go ahead and get into some of that, but if you’ve got a better place for us to start, please let me know.
[00:02:24] Amanda: That’s a good starting point.
[00:02:26] Amanda: And I guess real quick to clarify my title, right? I am a licensed therapist, also a certified alcohol and drug counselor, right? So, therapist, counselor, and mental health coach. And so based on a person’s needs, right, that’s kind of like where my title follows. And so I think in relation to the work that we’ve done together, probably more falls in line with mental health coaching.
[00:02:56] Amanda: So there’s that, but I want to speak to what you said, optimization of mental health, right? So I want to quickly create kind of like a caveat to that, right, of there is no pinnacle when it comes to your mental health, right? There is no like ultimate place where you can be in terms of the everyday person, right?
[00:03:25] Amanda: You can come up with examples of, you know, monks who live in isolation and are just completely Zen, right? For the sake of this conversation, we’re talking about entrepreneurs and normal. everyday folks, right? And so we can’t have this expectation that there is some final destination that we can get to when it comes to our mental health, because mental health, just like our physical health and all other aspects of being a human being require constant attention.
[00:03:54] Patrick: Yeah, that’s really good. Cause I think there’s this misperception out there that there’s this elusive happiness that we’re all seeking, right? And like we can spend an entire Episode talking about what happiness even is, but I think the societal misperception is If I just make some more money, I will be happy, right?
[00:04:13] Patrick: If I just win the billion dollar lotto, I will be happy. And I think personally, I’ve seen a number of examples of people that are chasing that. And then they sort of fall into this, the realization comes that like, Oh, I made it to these thresholds that I thought would make me happy. And I’m, I’m not, I’m not happy.
[00:04:32] Patrick: So I appreciate stopping and looking at that distinction. Like, oh, if I just get to this next level, I can sort of be at this sort of zen state that, you know, you brought that up. And I’m like, that’s exactly what came to mind. Like, oh, that’s That’s the pinnacle of, you know, mental health. I’m just like, mind like water, everything I can deal with, whatever comes my way.
[00:04:49] Patrick: So thank you for acknowledging that. I think that’s awfully important because really what we’re trying to do, and we talk a lot about money, but at the end of the day, we want to live a great life. And if our mental health is not dialed in, there’s just like no chance of doing that.
[00:05:02] Amanda: Yeah, absolutely. And we’ve had conversations before about this, right?
[00:05:08] Amanda: But specifically when it comes to our relationship with how we think about wellness. Right? And we have to let go of that, that version of wellness that’s been sold to us, right? And let go of that idea that once I reach this certain point, then have ultimate peace, right? Once I reach all of my goals, once I have all the money I want to have, I have that wealth, I’ll reach that level of peace and I’ll be good to go.
[00:05:37] Amanda: And that’s not wellness. Wellness is being able, as you said, right? Being able to handle whatever life throws at us. Wellness is the freedom to exist and experience the breadth and depth of human emotion and not be stuck in one or the other and not exist solely in one group of emotions. That’s unrealistic.
[00:06:04] Patrick: Yeah. So can we talk about that? Because when we first started meeting, one of the first things you had me do was read Brené Brown’s book, Atlas of the Heart, because I had, if we recall, I had three emotions that I, I pretended like I experienced, right? Uh, good, fine, and happy. I think those were like the ones that I’m like, yeah, no, I’m, I’m good, fine, happy.
[00:06:28] Patrick: Everything’s, everything’s great. And you mentioned something that I think is awfully. It’s been powerful for me is to go, no, no, no. I need to like,
[00:06:36] Amanda: yes, the pillow with the emotion wheel.
[00:06:40] Patrick: I’ve got my emotion pillow that I ordered off of Amazon that I have a bunch of these all over my house now. But I would come in and you’d be like, how are you doing?
[00:06:49] Patrick: And I’m like, I don’t know. And I’d have to like, start off in the middle of this thing and feel like, okay, big picture, what’s the general direction I’m at. And then I could work my way out and it’s just been powerful for me to go, okay, I’m going to stop and acknowledge what I’m feeling. And I’m going to like sort of process through that emotion versus just pretend like it doesn’t exist.
[00:07:09] Patrick: Cause what happened for me is like, I would take these negative emotions, shove them in this proverbial bag I’m dragging around. And then eventually the bag would get, I’d get really tired of carrying it around and I’d unload it on somebody. And it was like, this, this is not a healthy way to navigate life.
[00:07:24] Patrick: So,
[00:07:24] Amanda: yeah, you’re absolutely right. And you’re not alone in that. Right. So much of my work is folks coming in and saying, you know, I know I have stuff to deal with, but I don’t know. What? And I don’t know how. So that’s why I’m here. Right. And it’s a lot of, it starts at that groundwork of, okay, well, first we need to recognize, be able to name, we need to have the language to be able to say what it is we’re feeling.
[00:07:56] Amanda: Right. And that’s kind of the point of, of the infamous pillow, right. It’s to be able to put language To our experience and when we can’t do that, we’re very limited and oftentimes, right, then it comes out in maladaptive ways, right? So if a person doesn’t know, they can’t understand what they’re feeling themselves.
[00:08:19] Amanda: They don’t want the language to express it, right? The most common way to express that, anger, right? Anger. So you have folks who are like, yeah, I’m either good or I’m bad. There is no in
[00:08:33] Patrick: between,
[00:08:34] Amanda: which is not true. It’s just, they don’t understand themselves. They don’t have that emotional awareness enough to be able to dive deeper into what they’re actually experiencing.
[00:08:43] Patrick: Yeah, that’s good. And so how do we. Figure out how to handle these emotions in a healthy way, right? Like what is the best way to start like navigating through these? Cause I felt like I was somewhat fortunate cause I lived on the happy side of the equation. Right. And so, you know, it generally was there, but pretending like I didn’t deal with these other emotions, Just caused me problems.
[00:09:05] Patrick: And so how do we start working through managing these things in a healthy way?
[00:09:09] Amanda: That is the ultimate question. Right? That’s the ultimate question. And I think, again, we have to be intentional with the language that we use. When we’re talking about this, because there is no best way. It’s very individualistic, right?
[00:09:26] Amanda: There are general starting points, right? But just like the diversity of human beings, there’s also a lot of diversity in terms of what approaches, what modalities. work best for a person, right? And then comes in all of the other considerations that have to take place, right? So what systems is that person engaged in, right?
[00:09:53] Amanda: What history do they have? What, who are they? Right? How does their brain work? What makes that person tick? So, I want to acknowledge that before I give any type of advice or ideas or anything like that. That anything that I might say, it’s not going to be this generalized thing that’s going to work for every single person, right?
[00:10:20] Patrick: Dang it, Amanda. I was hoping for like the five minute abs and mental health here. Like, uh, but I think I joke a little bit. I think we’re sort of programmed to want to drive through breakthrough, our physical health, right? Like, like give me the pill, give me the quick workout, give me the thing that makes me healthy.
[00:10:37] Patrick: And I think the same is also true on our mental health. Like. Just give me the quick life hack that’s going to make me just well be able to navigate life without any trouble. And one thing that I think I’ve come to realize in our time together is like our neurochemistry is so like you talked about the diversity that we have and it’s like my neurochemistry leads me to enjoy certain things and not enjoy other things.
[00:11:00] Patrick: It’s like sort of sets me on a path and somebody that looks and walks and talks a lot like me could have completely different neurochemistry that. Is going to take them in a totally different direction and they’re going to need a whole different set of, uh, well, maybe just say tools to help them navigate the things that they’re experiencing.
[00:11:17] Patrick: So good, you touched on systems and I think maybe that’s, we can go wherever you want with this, but like, can you define systems for us a little bit and then maybe we can talk a little bit more about that.
[00:11:29] Amanda: Yeah, so I have my master’s degrees in social work. I think that’s an also an additional important thing, fact, right, for the audience to be aware of, because that is the lens, the perspective that I view a lot of this through, right?
[00:11:47] Amanda: And also my approach, my values, all of those
[00:11:50] Patrick: things.
[00:11:51] Amanda: So systems theory is foundational when it comes to not only my social work education, right? But also therapy. Right? When you take a specific approach that is very person centered, you utilize systems theory. So, this is very much in line with my approach.
[00:12:11] Amanda: But, systems theory is social structures. They’re interconnected systems with interdependent parts. Okay. And those systems influence each other, but also you as a whole. Okay. So to explain this, to create kind of a visual, right? Picture yourself as the center. Okay. So the individual is at the center and that is, You yourself, your individuality, that also includes your intersectionality, right?
[00:12:43] Amanda: So those are the social identities that you carry around with you, right? So it’s your, your sex, your race, your age, your gender, your ethnicity, right? So that’s you at the center. And then we work our way out. So like, if you imagine dropping a droplet of water into a puddle, right? Those rings. And so then we have our, our microsystems, that’s our immediate environment, that’s work, home, school, family, friends.
[00:13:12] Amanda: Right. So even if we were to just pause there, considering the individual, okay, then their immediate environment. Right. And so think about family dynamics, right? What happens if you work in an environment that’s toxic? You’re bringing that stress home. That’s having an impact on your family. That’s having an impact on your mental health.
[00:13:38] Patrick: Yeah. And I just think about these microsystems and I look at my microsystems growing up. And I had so many things in my favor, right? I had two parents that loved and cared about me. We were upper middle class. Like I had so many advantages that maybe if I think about somebody living in poverty, you know, doesn’t have enough food to eat.
[00:14:01] Patrick: There’s just violence in the home, you know, like all of these things, those microsystems absolutely shape how I’m going to process the world, how I’m going to navigate the world. So I think those are important. And I think there’s also a level of like, Once I become aware of those things, right. And I’m sort of out of a, any kind of crisis state, I can pay attention to that and sort of start adjusting those things to make sure that my micro systems are healthy.
[00:14:28] Patrick: Right. So
[00:14:29] Amanda: absolutely.
[00:14:30] Patrick: That’s great. Sorry. I didn’t mean to take us off track.
[00:14:32] Amanda: Yeah. And I don’t think you took us off track at all. I think you bring up a really good point, right? There comes a point in our lives where we do have an element of control. in regard to those microsystems, right? We can’t control the environment that we grew up in, right?
[00:14:50] Amanda: We can’t, we can’t help. And however, sometimes we have to go to therapy to process a lot of the pain that was incurred during that time, but we have very limited control. But then once we get to a stage in life where we have some control, you’re right in saying there are things that we can change about our microsystems.
[00:15:14] Amanda: So that we can have a better chance we can improve we it’s gonna align better with our goals Especially when it comes to having better mental health because we can make those adjustments, right? You can quit that job that is slowly killing you. Right, right Yeah, you know you can go to counseling and have better relationships You can address the issues Yeah.
[00:15:39] Patrick: Yeah. And I think it goes back to maybe the old adage of look at your five closest friends and that’s a reflection of you. Like if all of my friends are smoking, overweight and divorced, I’m probably going to be fitting in that same category. Not necessarily that is true, but I can be aware of those things and go, Hey, these may not be the best influences on me.
[00:16:00] Patrick: I need to start adjusting people that I’m surrounding myself with. So
[00:16:04] Amanda: right.
[00:16:04] Patrick: I love that. Yeah. Thank you.
[00:16:06] Amanda: And that too is very dependent on where our own mental state is. How vulnerable we are to those. external influences. I have family members who have their own struggles. They have a lot of maladaptive behaviors.
[00:16:22] Amanda: They’re, you know, and I can be around those folks and still maintain my own values and those types of things. But I’ve also done the work myself to be in a place where There’s limited impact in terms of what I take on myself. So that’s part of it.
[00:16:45] Patrick: Great, that’s good. Yeah, I think just being aware that our systems have a tremendous impact on us is important.
[00:16:51] Patrick: Yeah,
[00:16:51] Amanda: yeah. So, I mean, to kind of bring it back to the original point, the original question, right, is We first, any person who wants to do some sort of self-assessment, right. To figure out where they’re at, where to even start when it comes to addressing their mental health. We have this conversation about systems because we have to include that in the self-assessment.
[00:17:17] Amanda: Mm-Hmm. , right? Yeah. You know, we have to evaluate what are my problems? Yeah. Right. What am I struggling with and how. Are those systems involved with those struggles and what can I control? Are there things within those systems that I can change that I can control? You know, are there actionable steps that I can make?
[00:17:42] Amanda: And if not, okay, what do I do with that? Right? So any type of self assessment needs to include all of those external things along with whatever’s going on in here and up here.
[00:17:54] Patrick: Yeah. So can we talk about a self assessment for a second? And here’s where my brain’s going with this. If we think of the traditional medicine model, okay, I go to the doctor and they will tell me I’m not sick.
[00:18:10] Patrick: You’re sick or you’re not sick, right? Like, and if you’re not sick, we don’t do much for you. And unfortunately I’ve seen too many friends, clients, uh, What have you that our entrepreneurs, there’s no assessment of how they’re doing until there’s a problem and that problem shows up in lots of different ways.
[00:18:30] Patrick: Uh, I’m having a nervous breakdown, had a friend just grinding, like working his tail off and was outside chasing a rodent. Okay, and like basically froze and it was everything he could do to get himself back into the house and just, he like got home, broke down. sweating, like just, you know, panic attack.
[00:18:52] Patrick: And unfortunately, we’ve got a number of examples of that taking place. And it’s like, okay, how do we assess we’re not on the right path before we get to this point where like my body physically or emotionally just shuts itself down? What is the best way to do that?
[00:19:07] Amanda: Yeah, that’s a really good question, right?
[00:19:09] Amanda: Because You’re exactly right to your point when it comes to going to the doctor, right? Or assessing our physical health, okay, we can climb a set of stairs. We can step on a scale. We can go to the doctor. Those are pretty concrete markers in terms of determining where we’re at with our physical wellness, right?
[00:19:34] Amanda: And, you know, obviously outside of those things that we can’t see, and we’ll put that aside, right? But physical health is. It’s a lot easier to assess because we kind of have external tools to do that, right? And it’s very actionable. Mental health is a little trickier because we don’t know what we don’t know.
[00:19:57] Amanda: And so a person might not be aware that they are on a path to self destruction until they’re in crisis. And as a mental health professional and also someone who has a specialization in working with addiction, that happens incredibly frequently, right? Where they don’t know something’s wrong until it explodes.
[00:20:24] Patrick: Yeah, I should have mentioned, we could have the panic attack. We can also, drinking, sex, gambling, spending, like, some of these other behaviors can show up in a really unhealthy way as well. You know, and it’s like, which sort of is the addictive piece of it, right? Like, I can fall into addiction and like, be coping with my, Unaddressed mental health in unhealthy ways.
[00:20:49] Amanda: Yeah, absolutely. And so that’s exactly the right way to go. The right place to take this conversation is. So mental health assessment, especially when we don’t know, right, pay attention to the behavior. Do a behavioral assessment of yourself. What do I do when I wake up? What am I thinking about when I wake up?
[00:21:11] Amanda: Right? What am I doing during the workday? What makes me uncomfortable?
[00:21:18] Patrick: Yeah,
[00:21:18] Amanda: what do I do when I get home? What am I doing on the weekend? What behaviors are showing up? And so the answer to that is, you know, I wake up in the morning and immediately my brain is flooded with the to do’s of today. And I don’t feel well because I’m just.
[00:21:38] Amanda: Overwhelmed with all of that that’s going on. I get up. I get dressed. I Skip breakfast. I grab a coffee. I go to work and all day at work. I feel Irritated because people don’t leave me alone I’m, just working working working working and I go home at the end of the day and i’m so exhausted I just fall down on the couch.
[00:21:58] Amanda: I scroll on my phone. I turn on the tv And I go to sleep and so Looking at that behavior My question is going to be okay You First, there’s obviously some anxiety happening there, right? Because if you wake up in the morning and you’re immediately flooded with mental stress and overwhelm, and you can’t slowly calibrate yourself to the day.
[00:22:24] Amanda: Then, okay, there’s something there that needs addressing, right? And you don’t have to be a mental health professional to recognize that piece of it. If I wake up in the morning and I’m dreading the day, or I go to bed on Sunday night and I feel sick to my stomach because I have to get up and go to work on Monday morning, there’s something going on, right?
[00:22:43] Amanda: If I’m not engaging with other people, if I’m constantly staring at my phone when I get home, right? I like to refer to those behaviors that you kind of listed off, right? The shopping, gambling, even drinking, substance use, scrolling for hours on your phone. Those are all numbing
[00:23:04] Patrick: behaviors,
[00:23:05] Amanda: right? We’re numbing.
[00:23:06] Amanda: We’re stuck in this state of fight, flight, freeze.
[00:23:11] Patrick: Mhm.
[00:23:11] Amanda: That. We just can’t deal. And so we’re going to numb because we don’t know what else to do.
[00:23:19] Patrick: Yeah, that’s good. One thing I was thinking about too, that might be a worthwhile exercise is if you’re feeling like, Hey, I’m not doing that. Well, I think talking to somebody that I’m just thinking of like a friend, a spouse, something along those lines, like, Hey, are you noticing any behavior that just seems unhealthy?
[00:23:39] Patrick: And because a friend of mine was, we were together in a group, he’s dealing with some really challenging stuff and it’s like. The way he’s dealing with it is unhealthy and it’s like, Hey, we should maybe look at how we’re doing this and sort of take a step back and maybe find some different avenues to process through things.
[00:23:55] Patrick: And I think the challenging part as busy professionals, I don’t have, I don’t have the time or the energy to go. work on this. I’m in the middle of the fire. I got to keep fighting the fire. I can’t step out of it for a second. And the problem is the fire just seems to get bigger and bigger and bigger until I get either forces us out or we make time to like get out of it.
[00:24:13] Patrick: So yeah, it’s interesting how loved ones can shed some light on maybe our poor behaviors that we’re not quite recognizing.
[00:24:21] Amanda: Yeah, it’s a very common thing to have other people see things that we can’t see, right? Especially loved ones, people that we’re around, we have a partner or a close friend, right?
[00:24:33] Amanda: Someone that we trust, right? Because that type of conversation that you’re describing requires a level of trust and vulnerability. And so if you have that person in your life, yes, absolutely.
[00:24:43] Patrick: Yep.
[00:24:44] Amanda: You have somebody that you trust that is gonna be honest and kind, but honest, right? Yeah. Yep. Then that is, that’s another good thing to include in a self-assessment is like, you know, I’ve been feeling like things are off, things are not, I don’t like the way that I feel.
[00:24:58] Amanda: I don’t like the way that I’m operating. What do you notice?
[00:25:02] Patrick: Yeah, that’s great. Okay, so let’s, there’s something else to talk about. Let’s say I’ve self-assessed, right? Like, Hey, I, Mm-Hmm. , I’m noticing. Anxiety, depression. I’m not coping well with the challenges of the world. Now, what do I do? How do I like take action on this?
[00:25:16] Amanda: Yeah, that’s another great question, Pat. So a lot of folks stagnate there, right? Even in therapy, I have clients that come in and their self awareness is ticking up. They’re becoming more aware of, Oh wow, yeah, that is a thing that I do, or this is a thing that I struggle with. And then there’s like a plateau or a pause or, you know, that’s in a therapeutic environment, but outside of that, right, we can stagnate at awareness.
[00:25:46] Amanda: Because that is, tie it directly to the question is, okay, what do I do? Or do I even wanna do anything?
[00:25:56] Patrick: Mm-Hmm. . Yeah. I’m
[00:25:57] Amanda: aware of it. How often have you encountered someone who will tell you like, well, this is just the way that I’m, right?
[00:26:04] Patrick: Yep.
[00:26:04] Amanda: I’m blunt. It might sound rude. That’s just the way that I’m Mm-Hmm.
[00:26:08] Amanda: and we’ll just call that good or there’s a level of fear, right. I’m aware of these things. And one, I don’t know what to do about it, or two, I should probably go and talk to someone about it, but I’m afraid because either there’s stigma attached to that or being afraid of what else might come up if we start talking.
[00:26:34] Amanda: Because there’s a lot of comfort in continuing to just shove it down and put our head in the sand and pretend like everything is fine.
[00:26:43] Patrick: Yeah, absolutely. And we’ve
[00:26:44] Amanda: done that for so long, that’s the safe choice.
[00:26:48] Patrick: Yeah. And I think though, we can see this in lots of areas of our lives, right? Like we see it in business owners all the time.
[00:26:54] Patrick: Like I might be aware I need to make a change in my business, but it’s like, you know, The inertia, the path that I’m already on is just so much easier than trying to figure out a new thing, right? The amount of work it takes to like, start that new system, right, that we’re talking about, like, is, is just too much.
[00:27:11] Patrick: Same thing with our physical health, like, uh, you know, if I have to eat well and start moving my body, like, It’s a 98 step process to eat well, and then there’s another 400 steps to like getting physically fit, like screw it, I’m just going to keep doing what I’m doing, so I can see that playing out. Is there any thoughts on like, because I think when we think about the elephant, right, like I can’t eat the elephant, but if you start one bite at a time and start working your way there, is there like a, an easy sort of first step, like to take action on this, like, let’s get well with our mental health.
[00:27:43] Amanda: Yeah, so I wouldn’t say easy, but I will say, I’m going to change your analogy from consuming an elephant, uh, to climbing a mountain. Okay. If we’re zoomed out, we’re like, okay, yeah, there’s a mountain there, I can probably climb it, right? But then when we get to the base of that mountain and we look up,
[00:28:04] Patrick: I’m
[00:28:05] Amanda: like, ah, this isn’t right.
[00:28:10] Amanda: And so shifting your perspective to, okay, I’m not climbing this whole mountain, right? Just like if I’m going to start learning how to run, I’m not signing up for a marathon, right? I’m, I’m going to start by like, you know, maybe walking and then jogging a little, it’s the same, same with our mental health, same with climbing that mountain, right?
[00:28:33] Amanda: We just have to. One step at a time. And so to, if somebody wants to start, right, first focus on your everyday life, right? Those things that you’re engaging in, right? Are you sleeping? Right? Are you sleeping?
[00:28:51] Patrick: Yeah.
[00:28:52] Amanda: What are you consuming in terms of nutrition? Yep. Right. What are you consuming in terms of media?
[00:28:59] Amanda: Right.
[00:29:00] Patrick: Yeah,
[00:29:00] Amanda: both music, podcasts, video, right? I’ve had countless folks tell me like, man, I love listening to true crime podcasts, but I realized that I was constantly listening to them and then like my mood really sucked. Like I was just down all the time, right?
[00:29:19] Patrick: Yep, absolutely.
[00:29:20] Amanda: So paying attention to those things.
[00:29:22] Amanda: Right. Like, am I moving my body? Am I doing those things? So starting at that kind of foundational level of my behavior, right? Of those things, right? That’s always a great starting point. And so much of my job is that initial bit of triage, right? Uh, okay, let’s focus on the basics, right? Let’s basics figured out.
[00:29:47] Amanda: Let’s get those basics stabilized before we dig in. To the real meat and potato of like what’s happening here, right?
[00:29:56] Patrick: Right.
[00:29:57] Amanda: So I think for anybody who Has become aware right that level of awareness of like, oh, yeah, okay You know, maybe I’m not operating well, maybe my mental health is, is not the best, right?
[00:30:10] Amanda: Let me start by doing these simple, reasonable, actionable items and then go from there. Then go to therapy, honestly, then go to therapy.
[00:30:23] Patrick: Yeah. And I think there’s some level of like just scheduling an initial consultation with a therapist, like just talking to somebody about the things you’ve got going on and having them.
[00:30:32] Patrick: Maybe help you, like you said, triage. We see this thing right in front of us. Let’s just sort of work through that, you know? And it’s like, okay, yeah, can I find an hour of my time to go sit down and just chat through this with somebody and do that for a few weeks and just see if we can like, Start to move the needle a little bit.
[00:30:49] Patrick: But again, it’s also like, I think the analogy is very aligns well with like going to the gym. I can’t go to the gym for a month and expect to be like physically fit right after a month, I need to show up and just put the effort in like day after day, week after week. And then all of a sudden. You don’t notice it from, you know, Monday to Wednesday, the progress you made, but you can look back from July to, you know, the beginning of the year and go, Oh, Hey, like there’s some real progress here.
[00:31:13] Patrick: This is really good. I can handle the things that life is throwing me that maybe I couldn’t before. Yeah. So, and I don’t know, like we’ve talked about the window of tolerance. I don’t know if this is a decent place to jump into that, like how I expand that and what that means, or if there’s other areas you want to dig into next.
[00:31:29] Amanda: So I think one last note on that topic right there, or one, maybe two, I think another important piece of that self assessment, that awareness, that taking those first steps, right, is also changing our view on or adjusting it on getting help, right? And there are plenty of, you know, initiatives to try and de stigmatize and, but I think oftentimes, right, those are very much attached to mental illness, right?
[00:32:10] Amanda: Versus a person who’s just struggling, right? Like maybe they don’t meet diagnostic criteria for mental illness. And so then they think, well, I don’t need to go to therapy or I’m not a candidate or whatever. I think especially, right, because Of the audience that this is going to, right? Think of your own mental health as an investment, right?
[00:32:34] Amanda: Invent in yourself, invest in your mental health, and you will see positive outcomes in so many other areas of your life. Because when you’re well, you’re operating well, you’re producing well. And so invest in yourself, invest in your mental health, just like you invest in your physical health.
[00:32:56] Patrick: Absolutely.
[00:32:57] Patrick: And I think the shift that I made, I’ve not had a problem with therapy. Julie and I have gone to couples therapy, like individually, it’s been really good for me. And the way I think about it, it’s like the best in the world. Name the best in the world at anything. Okay. Let’s look at athletes. They all have coaches, personal trainers, like these are the fittest people in the world and they’re paying people to help coach them and help them get better.
[00:33:23] Patrick: So I think about that and I’m like, all right, what areas of my life do I value and want to have success in? We’ll get to my mental health, but my business is important. I have at least two business coaches. My physical health matters. I’ve had. Fitness coaches, I pay a concierge doctor to do my blood test and like, make sure that my health is optimized when I want to get better at golf.
[00:33:45] Patrick: I go hire a coach to like dial in my game. And so why is my mental health, which probably has a bigger impact than any of those things, not something I’m investing my time and energy into, like it’s going to, at the end of the day, the whole goal is to live a great life. It’s going to help me live a great life more than any.
[00:34:04] Patrick: I’m a dollar figure more than anything. It’s going to help me navigate my relationships better. Like, I can’t think of a better investment than to spend time and money on optimizing my mental health. So I’m absolutely an advocate and, um, that framework of like, I go get a coach for everything I care about.
[00:34:23] Patrick: Why not bring a mental health coach into my life? So
[00:34:26] Amanda: yeah, absolutely.
[00:34:28] Patrick: Good. Thank you for bringing that up. That’s great.
[00:34:30] Amanda: Yeah. So, yeah, we can talk about. Tolerance, right? Because that oftentimes be, this is very interconnected to the things that we’ve talked to before, right? Is we have a very complicated relationship when it comes to discomfort, distress, those types of things, right?
[00:34:54] Amanda: Our society is very much, let’s be the most comfortable that we can, right? And I don’t want to say that that’s Bad, right? The feeling of comfort is not a bad feeling, right? But when we are actively avoiding discomfort, when we’re making our decisions and our behaviors and everything is geared toward avoiding discomfort, right?
[00:35:20] Amanda: And, and pain, right? Because discomfort, emotional pain, mental pain, right? When we think pain, Pain is very much tied to fear. And so we actively push against that, right? Yeah. And so, our level of tolerance For discomfort, for distress, right, says a lot about our behavior and the state of our mental health.
[00:35:47] Patrick: Mm hmm. Yeah. So feel free to like correct this. When we think about discomfort, I think about stress. Okay. To be able to grow, I need a healthy amount of stress, right? I see that in my business when I’m challenged, like it causes me to get better when I’m looking at getting physically fit, right? Like I go run, which creates stress, or I lift weights, which creates stress.
[00:36:12] Patrick: Now, too little stress is sort of sloth. Like that’s like, I’ve got nothing going on. I’m sitting on the couch and we sort of think that’s where we want to be. Too much stress is burnout. Like that’s absolutely unhealthy. So. Is this amount of discomfort, is that where on one hand, yes, we want to avoid that scary, but is that where the growth happens is sort of the right amount of sort of discomfort in our lives that we can.
[00:36:40] Patrick: And again, using a running analogy, like if I sign up for a marathon, but I’ve never gone for a run, I can’t handle that much stress, right? Like I can’t handle that much discomfort, but if I work my way up to it, if I keep developing my running skills, running three or four times a week for a long enough period of time, now I can get out and complete a marathon.
[00:36:58] Patrick: Is that analogy sort of aligned with what you’re talking about here, or am I completely off base?
[00:37:02] Amanda: No, it, it does. It does. Because if you were very serious about that, if that was a serious goal that you are motivated and ready to take on, you have accepted. That there is going to be a level of discomfort that comes along with that journey, right?
[00:37:24] Amanda: You’ve accepted that and you’re still Willing to jump in and do it.
[00:37:28] Patrick: Yeah,
[00:37:28] Amanda: right and so Life and our everyday experiences Should be the same Right, we should we need to be in a place where we accept that there’s a level of discomfort That comes along with being alive with the human experience Right, and i’m not talking about physical discomfort, right?
[00:37:53] Amanda: obviously because of my Expertise, right? We’re talking about that emotional and mental discomfort and When we don’t have the skills to appropriately manage that right or we have Lived in a state of chronic stress that we can’t get out of, right? And we’re just constantly faced with that level of discomfort, right?
[00:38:19] Amanda: We’re gonna escape. We’re gonna try and run away and that’s where some of that numbing comes into play as well, right? And so we have to change not only our expectations, For I’m never going to be uncomfortable to acceptance of, yes, I’m going to experience discomfort and I’m going to work hard to develop the skills to be able to handle
[00:38:44] Patrick: it.
[00:38:44] Patrick: That’s good. Cause I heard a definition of happiness once that was defined as. the realization of our potential. Okay. And I think if we think about what you’re talking about here to move towards that happiness thing, I have to embrace some discomfort, right? Like I don’t get better at it because they looked at, you know, people doing things like climbing the mountain, like training for Everest, like the process of getting better was where the happiness came, even though it was awfully uncomfortable at times.
[00:39:17] Patrick: And, uh, it wasn’t actually hitting the summit. Like that was not the happiness point. It was like, Oh, I did the work and was able to like, you know, realize this goal. And the work is where
[00:39:28] Amanda: joy in the journey,
[00:39:29] Patrick: the joy came from. Yeah, yeah, absolutely.
[00:39:32] Amanda: Yeah. And to speak further on. Our tolerance for that, right?
[00:39:39] Amanda: Like I often use the window of tolerance as a way to create a visualization, but also an easy explanation that is digestible by anyone just to help us kind of better understand ourselves. Right. And so I’ll tell it to you. Like I’m telling it to you for the first time, right? Not like this is the 30th time you’ve heard me talk about this.
[00:40:03] Patrick: Perfect.
[00:40:03] Amanda: So if you picture. A window, right? A two paned window, pain on top, pain on the bottom, and in the middle, right, is a line, okay? That middle line right there, that’s our baseline. That’s where we’re okay, where we’re content, we don’t have any big emotions, you know, up or down, right? We’re not anxious, we’re not depressed, we’re not angry, we’re not, you know, Experiencing sorrow, we’re in the middle and the size of our window can change.
[00:40:37] Amanda: So just, you know, keep that peace in mind that the size of our window can change. Okay. So a healthy way to operate, right. Is. Something happens. There’s some sort of stimuli. We leave baseline, we experience anger or we go dip down, we experience sadness, right? And if we have the tools and the capacity, we move through those emotions and we come back down to baseline, right?
[00:41:09] Amanda: Like that is, that is wellness, right? The ability to handle those ebbs and flows and, you know, come back to baseline. Right. But not everyone has. The skills, the awareness, all of those things. Right. And when it comes to especially stress, chronic stress, right. So let’s make sure we’re including that because entrepreneurs, business owners, right.
[00:41:33] Amanda: Stress has such a symbiotic relationship with that. Right. So when we. Are we get above baseline, right? Let’s let’s talk about being above, right? We get above that baseline and then Something else happens and something else happens, right? Eventually, we’ve left the middle and we’ve reached the top of that window pane, right?
[00:41:57] Patrick: This
[00:41:59] Amanda: is all we can tolerate from baseline to the top of that window pane. That’s it.
[00:42:03] Patrick: Yeah,
[00:42:04] Amanda: right so When another thing happens, right how many times have you know, that was my tipping point That was the thing that threw me over the ledge, right? That’s the moment that I left my window of tolerance. I tipped outside of what I could tolerate, right?
[00:42:20] Amanda: And same thing goes for down below right of sadness and sorrow and You know, maybe suicidal ideation and all of those things, right? We can tip down outside of that window of tolerance and get stuck in a depression
[00:42:37] Patrick: Yeah,
[00:42:38] Amanda: or and so there are folks who have very narrow windows You And that can be from trauma, it can be from addiction, it can be from, you know, those types of things.
[00:42:51] Amanda: Right. And so it doesn’t take much to tip that person over the edge.
[00:42:57] Patrick: Yeah. And could my window change depending on like, could I in one area of my life have a really wide window? Okay. Let’s say it’s managing. I don’t know, we’ll call it work stress. But then there’s stress around my, I don’t know, we’ll call it marriage, okay, and I don’t handle that at all.
[00:43:17] Patrick: Like a little bit of stress just kicks me into an unhealthy spot. Or do you see in general, like people have a wide window sort of period, throw things in and they can handle it up until a certain point or they can’t, you know? Yeah. Is it dependent on the type of stress?
[00:43:34] Amanda: I’m going to give a soft no to that one, okay?
[00:43:38] Amanda: Mm hmm. Because If you have, you know, you’re doing the work, you’re pouring into yourself, you’re investing in your mental and your emotional health, you’re doing all of that, right? You’re engaging in mindfulness and all of those things, right? You’re resting, you’re doing that type of work, right? Your window expands.
[00:43:59] Amanda: And so, regardless of the stimuli, You’re going to have a higher tolerance. Yeah, right, and I would say If there’s a particular area in your life that you feel like you have a very narrow tolerance I think focusing more on that relationship Yeah, and your relationship to the problem Versus like thinking about like, Oh, I have this whole house and all these windows and it just depends on the window that I go to that day.
[00:44:31] Patrick: Yeah. And I think one thing that I can look back at my question, and I think we need to be careful of the facade, right? Just because I’m keeping it together doesn’t mean I’m processing it well. Right. And it’s like, I can keep my act together and it can look really good over here in this arena. And then it’s a mess over here, but at the end of the day, I’m really not handling any of it very well.
[00:44:52] Patrick: So
[00:44:52] Amanda: yeah,
[00:44:52] Patrick: yeah. That’s a really good distinction. Thank you.
[00:44:54] Amanda: Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely.
[00:44:57] Patrick: So. When I get outside of my window of tolerance, and it’s probably not like a straight spike up, right? Like it’s just like a bunch of, I could be having a bunch of bad days in a row, right? Like in bad month, bad whatever, things keep stacking up.
[00:45:12] Patrick: What happens when I get either through the top or through the bottom of that. If I put these into categories, it’s anxiety on the top side and depression on the bottom side, right? Is that a fair?
[00:45:20] Amanda: Yeah, essentially.
[00:45:22] Patrick: Yeah. What are some outcomes that I would be getting if I’m sort of outside my window of tolerance?
[00:45:28] Amanda: Yeah. So that’s any form of being dysregulated. And so having a panic attack, right, that’s being dysregulated, being thrown into a fit of rage, right, that’s dysregulated. So any type of emotional dysregulation is outside that window. And I think also to make an important distinction, right, depression in and of itself is A mental illness.
[00:45:53] Amanda: And so we can’t necessarily narrow that down to like, Oh, well, I’m outside my window of tolerance. So now I’m depressed, right? Because a person with lived experience with depression, right? I’ve had times where literally I’ll just, I’m a therapist. I have the tools. I’ve done the work, right? Like, I have still woken up and been like, ah,
[00:46:17] Patrick: like
[00:46:18] Amanda: I’m depressed today and that sucks.
[00:46:22] Amanda: So it’s more, that’s why I use the terminology of like being dysregulated, right? Because that’s what happens. And if we’ve done the work to have the skills, We can self regulate, we can engage in those skills, those tools, all of those types of things, right? To bring us back down, to get us back in that window where we can kind of think straight.
[00:46:49] Amanda: And then hopefully return a little bit closer to baseline, right?
[00:46:52] Patrick: Yeah.
[00:46:53] Amanda: But outside that window, some people can get stuck in that state of dysregulation. And that’s really difficult. And I would say anybody who feels like they’re stuck in a state like that, they’re not. Absolutely seek help because it’s such a complicated thing, but also don’t suffer alone in those states of being because it’s really difficult to white knuckle your way back to being okay.
[00:47:22] Patrick: Absolutely. So is this a decent spot to talk through, I don’t know what term I want to use, but like we talked about depression, like depression is a mental illness that needs specific attention, right? It’s not like, Oh, hey, go pull yourself up by your bootstraps and you’ll be okay. And I’m going to admit ignorance on this when I first started looking into and understanding mental health better, I’m like, I don’t understand anxiety.
[00:47:47] Patrick: I don’t understand depression. I don’t get worked up about things. I also don’t get too down. I just sort of, I think I have a pretty wide window, but I’ve come to appreciate these things just as people I’m around have dealt with them. And so. Can we talk about, okay, I’m dealing with a real mental health issue here, because I think there’s, again, more stigma tied to these things like, Hey, go pull yourself up by your bootstraps.
[00:48:09] Patrick: Just don’t worry about it. Like just whatever. And so I think there’s probably a good combination. I think I heard this from you skills and pills, right? Like let’s get our chemicals figured out and let’s have the skills to like navigate life. But I don’t know if we want to take a slight detour and talk about some of these more serious mental health issues and maybe how to navigate those if people are facing them because it’s real.
[00:48:29] Amanda: Yeah, absolutely. I’m glad that you brought up skills and pills, because that’s, that’s an important part. It’s an important part of the conversation, right? Like, you know, you can go to your, you can talk to your primary care provider or whomever it is, and you say, you know, I’m feeling this, this, this, or you go to the doctor’s office, right?
[00:48:50] Amanda: They have you fill out that PHQ 9 assessment, right? It’s that personal health questionnaire. It’s going to ask you nine questions, and it’s going to assess those. Where you’re at on terms of being depressed, right? So you do that your doctor’s like, oh, hey, you know, I see you scored pretty high on this questionnaire here let’s talk about it right and you walk away with a prescription for medication and That’s a great first step, right?
[00:49:20] Amanda: It’s a great first step, but the expectation And this comes from my clinical approach and philosophy, right? It’s the expectation can’t be that okay You know i’m on lexapro wellbutrin whatever now and so my depression is gonna be gone and i’m gonna be good and We gotta back up a little bit right and the reason I say skills and pills is You I think medication is great.
[00:49:48] Amanda: To reduce the intensity of those symptoms so that you have the ability to focus on the other interventions that are going to lead to overall wellness.
[00:50:03] Patrick: Yeah. And this is coming from an uninformed perspective, but I do feel like we, again, societally try to solve problems with a few pills, right? And we look at the amount of time a primary care doctor has to spend with you and understand your situation.
[00:50:17] Patrick: Yeah. And it is so short, and I feel like we have gotten into the like, let’s just prescribe something and try to fix it versus like, let’s show up and put in the work to develop the skills. Not that it’s not an important part of the solution, but I think we sort of want that to be the whole solution. And it’s, it’s really the case.
[00:50:37] Patrick: Yeah. I, I don’t know. It’s one of those things that seems to irritate me a little bit, just about Medicine and how we are just trying to prescribe our way out of some of these issues. And it’s like, if I cover up the light on the dashboard with my service engine, light came on, like covering it up, doesn’t mean it went away.
[00:50:56] Patrick: Right. Like I’ve got to like actually go fix the underlying issue to make sure that I’m well. And so I appreciate that approach.
[00:51:03] Amanda: Yeah. And I think medication can do wonders. It can help a person get to a level of functioning.
[00:51:11] Patrick: Mm hmm.
[00:51:12] Amanda: Which is why I think that it shouldn’t be stigmatized or villainized, right?
[00:51:17] Amanda: Or, you know, if a person is not ready to do the rest of the work, then at least they have something right. Because medication can do that. It can get you to a level of functioning. Right. And so if that person’s goal is To get beyond that, right, push past the limitations of the medication, then that’s where the additional work comes in.
[00:51:47] Patrick: Yeah. And I think you recommended the book Burnout to my wife, and I read it as well. And it’s, it’s sort of focused for women, but I think there’s so many good things just period in there about like, Taking this idea of our mental health and sure, there’s a chemical piece to it. Sure. There’s a skills piece to it, but there’s also like a physical piece, like a big portion of the book was like, look, when we start taking care of our bodies, like it helps our mental health as well.
[00:52:11] Patrick: You know, we start moving a little bit, eating well, not drinking coffee right before we go to bed, like our sleep and our rest is super important to, I think our mental health as well. So I just wanted to sort of bring that sort of piece into the equation as well. It’s like, we like to. put our health into different buckets, right?
[00:52:28] Patrick: Well, I got my mental health, my physical health, and it’s like, at the end of the day, they’re awfully tied together. So yes,
[00:52:33] Amanda: they’re insanely interconnected, right? Like in our stomach, we make serotonin, right? So like, to think that our, Physical health, or even our gut health, right, is not tied to our mental state, right?
[00:52:49] Amanda: And not paying attention to the science,
[00:52:52] Patrick: right?
[00:52:52] Amanda: You know, they’re incredibly interconnected.
[00:52:54] Patrick: Absolutely.
[00:52:55] Amanda: And I recommend that book, The Burnout Book, to anyone who will listen to me about it, right? Yeah. But especially folks who are people who have a tendency to grind and hustle and
[00:53:12] Patrick: Yeah. You
[00:53:12] Amanda: know, just put their head down and to success and ignore their wellness, their health, their mental health.
[00:53:20] Amanda: Right. For the, for the sake of those positive external outcomes, I think,
[00:53:25] Patrick: yeah,
[00:53:25] Amanda: read burnout.
[00:53:27] Patrick: Absolutely. Like I just sent it to a client. She was talking about. I was like, how did you get here? She was like, well, it’s been a bunch of hundred hour weeks. I’m like, okay, I’ve got a book you need to read because like this trajectory is not sustainable.
[00:53:41] Patrick: And so I think I would agree with you. It’s a, it’s a fantastic resource. So good. Good. So I don’t want to abuse your time. Where would you like to go from here? Because I feel like I’ve got a few maybe follow up questions we could dig into or if you’re like, Hey, no, I’ve got a few other things I need to stack onto this.
[00:53:59] Amanda: Yeah. Real quickly. I want to revisit the topic of stress just because it’s very much relevant to what we’re talking about with, with burnout. Right.
[00:54:11] Patrick: Yep.
[00:54:12] Amanda: And talking about how you described a healthy level of stress.
[00:54:16] Patrick: And
[00:54:18] Amanda: I think that instead of thinking of a healthy level of stress, think of it more of what is my relationship to the stress?
[00:54:27] Amanda: How am I managing the stress? Right. And because we know that there are stresses called by stress caused by stressors, right? Some of those stressors we can control. Some of those stressors we cannot control. Right.
[00:54:43] Patrick: Yeah.
[00:54:43] Amanda: And a lot of Specific I bring this up specifically related to that burnout book because it talks about the stress cycle, right?
[00:54:52] Amanda: and when we Have stress on stress on stress on stress and it’s just compounded and we’re never getting out of that cycle We’re burnt out. That’s how we get burned is Never escaping that stress right or to use the words from that book, right? We’re not closing that cycle of stress, right? We’re not Intentionally engaging In those important pieces that we’ve talked about, right.
[00:55:20] Amanda: Of like exercise, social connection, sleep, all of those things, right. If we’re not intentionally closing out our stress for the day, then it’s going to stack like pancakes until we reach that level of burnout and burnout. It’s so difficult to recover.
[00:55:42] Patrick: Yeah. Expand on that a little bit.
[00:55:45] Amanda: So being burnout. Can keep you stuck in fight flight freeze Okay, so That’s the I don’t know if you’ve heard the term or heard functional freeze And so a person can be completely burnt out and stuck in that state of freeze, but they’re still showing up to work. They’re doing their job.
[00:56:15] Amanda: Right. But they’re not operating the way they normally are. They’re miserable. Right. They only have the capacity. For the bare minimum, right? And then they’re going home and they’re laying down and they’re not moving because they’re completely stuck They are frozen and that’s a difficult That’s why I say burnout is a difficult thing to recover from because you have to Get out of that state of complete dysfunction and heal not only your, your mind, but your body as well because it can have lasting impacts on your physical health.
[00:56:58] Patrick: Yeah. So this could dovetail nicely into this burnout discussion. And it’s something you and I have spent a lot of time talking about recently, and it’s rest. Like I, every part of my being pushes against resting. Like I don’t understand it if I’m not in motion, I was even, I go on vacation and I’ve turned it into a contest.
[00:57:18] Patrick: How many books can I read? How many miles can I walk? How many workouts can I get? Like it’s like, and so is rest a, a remedy for burnout? Or is there, I think rest is a key piece to getting out of burnout. Cause there’s been this tension inside of me and it, I’m just real about it. It just makes me mad. Like I understand the need to rest, but I’m sort of hanging on to those things.
[00:57:44] Patrick: And going back to our earlier discussion around like. I can be self aware enough that I need to rest, but I’m not actually going to make that change and go rest, right? I’m just going to keep sort of driving my car towards the cliff until I’m now in crisis mode and I have to fix it. But I am embracing rest.
[00:58:02] Patrick: So I’m a part of strategic coach, which Says get 150 free days a year into your calendar and a free day is not responding to emails, not looking at emails, not reading a business book. It’s not like any of those things. They’re doing no work really, truly free. And so when we think about. The week, right?
[00:58:22] Patrick: We’ve got 52 weeks a year. There’s 104 free days. And then some of the holidays there’s, call it 115. Now we need 35 more days of free days. Mm-Hmm. , which is seven weeks of time off. And I’m like, I cannot wrap my head around this. But what I’ve done is I’ve got a third of the way into the year, I took the last two thirds of the year and put a hundred free days on my calendar and.
[00:58:44] Patrick: My first like official free day is next Friday, so we’ll report back and see how that goes. But, uh,
[00:58:50] Amanda: I look forward to hearing about that.
[00:58:52] Patrick: Yeah. So I’m wondering what your thoughts are on like truly resting and how this sort of fits into we’ll call it our mental health and burnout and some of those pieces.
[00:59:02] Amanda: Yeah. So I think first, the type of rest and what rest looks like for a person, right, is very dependent on what’s going on in their life. Right. And so you and I have a level of privilege, right, where we can schedule like an entire day, right, where we can clear our calendar and share those resources.
[00:59:25] Amanda: engage in intentional rest, right? I say intentional rest for a reason, right? Because let’s say there’s, well, there are, there are a lot of folks who don’t have the privilege of doing that for an entire day, but they can still engage in intentional rest in order benefit and improve their mental health.
[00:59:46] Amanda: And ultimately, right, a lot of that comes down to one right intention and two boundaries, right? Like you described a lot of boundaries. That are in place for you personally for those days of rest, right? Like no work emails No, all of those things right social
[01:00:08] Patrick: media all that crap
[01:00:10] Amanda: You’ve created boundaries for those days of rest so that you can intentionally Engage in activities that are going to refill your cup, right feed your mental health nourish that part of you, right?
[01:00:24] Amanda: And I think that’s the important piece, right? And so back to how it relates to burnout is rest. Yes. Intentional rest. 100%. Right. And rest. When we think about rest, right? We think about like laying down, having a nap, right? But that’s not the type of rest we’re talking about, right? We’re talking about creating boundaries And having an experience, right?
[01:00:55] Amanda: Having an evening, having a day, having some time where we’re not engaging with our stressors.
[01:01:02] Patrick: Yeah, and I think you make a really interesting point. We’re fortunate, right? But let’s pretend for a second I’m a single parent. I have to work. I’ve got kids involved in a bunch of crap. It’s going to be really challenging for me to like, find a way to, to get some rest.
[01:01:21] Patrick: So that may be like, true. I think there’s probably a bunch of people listening to this that have self imposed barriers. They’re like, I can’t get rest, which if you believe that’s true, it’s going to be true, right? Like if I believe I can’t get rest, then I’m just going to keep sort of doing all this stuff.
[01:01:39] Patrick: Those limiting beliefs are going to get in the way and it’s going to be a problem. Any wisdom on like, and we talked about two things can be true, right? Is there any thoughts on like, how do I handle these limiting beliefs? It’s sort of like, um, I keep running against that, uh, are prohibiting me from making healthy progress.
[01:01:59] Amanda: Yes. Especially for people who hustle and grind and who have that limiting belief of, well, I can’t rest. I have this to do, and I have this to do, and I have this to do, right? Yep. You can make the time. If you can make the time to meet with that person for an hour, if you can make the time for that call, if you can make the time for whatever, right?
[01:02:25] Patrick: Yep.
[01:02:25] Amanda: You can make the time. Even if it’s start small and prove to yourself that it’s possible, right? Yeah and so to touch on what you said right if I’m a single parent and I work and I have kids that are involved in Activities and life is busy. That person is not in a place where they’re Carving out an entire day.
[01:02:47] Amanda: They feel like rest Is impossible and I know because I have clients who are in that exact situation, right? And so my advice to them is like we get very specific about their day, about their schedule. I ask very detailed questions. To get a full picture of what their day looks like and sometimes for them, it’s okay, my kids are in bed instead of laying down now and scrolling endlessly on social media, right?
[01:03:24] Amanda: Maybe that’s the time that I, you know, I’m going to set a timer, I’m going to carve out one hour, I’m going to
[01:03:35] Patrick: Yeah.
[01:03:36] Amanda: I’m going to read some chapters out of that book I’ve been wanting to read that I’ve just convinced myself I don’t have time to read.
[01:03:44] Patrick: Yeah.
[01:03:44] Amanda: Right. And so that’s my point is, if you really want to, then do it.
[01:03:52] Patrick: Yeah.
[01:03:53] Amanda: Even if it’s small.
[01:03:54] Patrick: Yeah. That’s fantastic. So this is really good. Any other topics we should discuss on mental health before we, we wrap up, we’ve covered a lot of ground.
[01:04:03] Amanda: Yeah. Yeah. We, we really have covered a lot of ground and, um, I think you know me well enough to know that I can speak endlessly on all of these things because this is what I do for a living, right?
[01:04:17] Amanda: You can talk about finances all day long and I can talk about mental health all day long, right? But I think the primary takeaway that I would want. People to get from this conversation is one. If you feel like something is off, something’s not right. If you feel that low lying level of constant dissatisfaction.
[01:04:38] Amanda: Right.
[01:04:39] Patrick: Yeah.
[01:04:39] Amanda: Then talk to someone, right? Just talk to someone about it. Right. Because maybe there’s a bigger issue. Maybe there isn’t, but don’t hold that in. Get it out.
[01:04:50] Patrick: Right.
[01:04:50] Amanda: And also we said this the other day, we kind of like mutually developed this when we were talking the other day and we said, you can’t hustle your way to peace.
[01:05:03] Patrick: Yeah. And
[01:05:03] Amanda: so, so let go of that lie. That if I just grind harder, if I hustle more, right. Because your life is going to pass you by and you’re going to miss out on all of those potential moments where you could have already experienced peace and joy and contentment. Because you’re so busy focused on keeping your head down and grinding.
[01:05:28] Amanda: And don’t get me wrong. There is a place for that. And as somebody who’s now, I’m now a business owner, right?
[01:05:36] Patrick: Right. Yep.
[01:05:37] Amanda: There is a level of hustle and all of that, that I have to do, but I don’t do it at the expense of myself.
[01:05:44] Patrick: Absolutely. I think that’s a. fantastic spot to wrap up. Like we can’t hustle our way to peace.
[01:05:49] Patrick: We can’t earn another dollar to find peace of mind. Like none of that’s going to get us peace. We have to be able to effectively navigate life and life period, whether we’re rich or poor, we’re going to have challenges. We have to navigate and we’re going to lose people. There’s going to be trials. And if we don’t have the tools to handle those things, well, it’s going to affect our life.
[01:06:12] Patrick: We’re not going to live the quality of life that we could live. So it’s, Interesting. We’re doing this virtually, even though we’re in the same building. If somebody wants to engage with you, like, Hey, Amanda, I would love to sort of have a coaching session. You can do this virtually all over the United States, right?
[01:06:28] Patrick: Like probably anywhere in the world, but there’s a level when it tips into like therapy that it’s, you have to be in Iowa to do that. So. If people want to get in touch with you on the, we’ll call it the mental health coaching side of things. What’s the best way for them to do that?
[01:06:43] Amanda: So I have a website, goldenhourllc.
[01:06:47] Amanda: org. Really fought for that domain. I
[01:06:51] Patrick: love it.
[01:06:52] Amanda: Visit that and there are, you know, you can click any of the links. Where it indicates to get started, it takes you to a form. I get that form, you get in direct contact with me. And so that’s really the simplest way to do that. And yeah, you’re right for mental health coaching.
[01:07:09] Amanda: That’s something that is. available virtually everywhere. And if you happen to be in the state of Iowa, where I am licensed and you need mental health therapy, then that is an option that’s available to you.
[01:07:22] Patrick: Great. Thank you. I think my last question, if people look closely, they’ll notice in my background and your background, there’s Lego, like how important is Lego to mental health?
[01:07:33] Patrick: I think, I think that might be the drive through breakthrough thing that people are looking for. If you just get some Lego, you are well.
[01:07:39] Amanda: Yeah, I think you and I could probably do an entire additional episode on Lego. I don’t know that anyone would listen to that because it’s really dorky.
[01:07:50] Patrick: Yeah.
[01:07:50] Amanda: However, um, I have actually found so much value in Lego.
[01:07:57] Amanda: Some people paint, some people have puzzles. Some people, it is a mindful activity and also it brings me joy. It’s great decoration, right? And it has connections to pop culture. It’s all of those things, but ultimately I engage in mindfulness when I sit down and I work on my Lego and then I end up with these gorgeous backgrounds for my calls.
[01:08:24] Patrick: Fantastic. I love it. Yeah. I agree. I’m not diagnosed ADHD, but I feel like I’ve got some ADHD and it’s just keeping my hands kind of busy. It allows my brain to just rest a little bit. I can sort of problem solve while I’m, uh, you know, let my subconscious work on some of these, um, problems at hand without actually having to work.
[01:08:44] Patrick: So it’s, it’s good, Amanda. This has been wonderful. Thank you so much for your time and insight. I appreciate it. Appreciate it. Personally, you’ve had tremendous impact on me and people close to me. So thank you very much. I appreciate this. Have a great day. Thank you. Thank you for joining us today for this important conversation.
[01:09:04] Patrick: I’d like to remind you to take a moment to rate and review the vital strategies podcast. We love your feedback and it helps us in delivering content that resonates with you. Additionally. Don’t forget to visit vital strategies. com forward slash tools to explore our collection of resources designed to support your growth journey from practical guides to actionable worksheets.
[01:09:23] Patrick: There’s something for every entrepreneur looking to elevate their game. Be sure to mark your calendars and tune in next week as we’re joined by a special guest, Robin Sears. Robin is an attorney that has optimized the mergers and acquisitions process. So deals get done fast and done right. We explore her firm’s unique process called Speed M& A.
[01:09:42] Patrick: Robin will be sharing insights into a system she developed that many entrepreneurs can leverage to streamline their mergers and acquisitions process. You won’t want to miss it. May is Mental Health Awareness Month. We had a great conversation today on how to optimize your mental health. It’s interesting how in society, taking care of our mental health is often overlooked, but I don’t know if there’s anything more important to our well being here on Earth.
[01:10:04] Patrick: If we aren’t physically well, we call the doctor. Nobody thinks twice about it. For some reason, with mental health, that isn’t always the case. Unfortunately, I’ve had a couple of friends and a mentor die by suicide. If you want to talk to somebody, pick up your phone and call or text a friend. If you feel like you have nowhere else to turn, dial or text 988.
[01:10:23] Patrick: It’s like 911, but for mental health emergencies. 988 is the 24 hour suicide prevention hotline. You matter. You are vital. You are vital to the people closest to you, and you are vital to me. Again, if you need to talk to someone, call or text 988. I look forward to seeing you again next time. Thanks for being vital.

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