067 | Win or Learn: The Entrepreneur Mindset You Need to Succeed with Pat Brennan

[00:00:00] Patrick Lonergan: Have you ever wondered what separates a struggling business from one that thrives? How do successful entrepreneurs build trust, attract great clients, and create a business that can run without them? If you’ve ever wanted to take your business to the next level, you’re going to love today’s episode.
[00:00:18] Patrick Lonergan: Welcome back to another episode of the Vital Wealth Strategies Podcast. I’m your host Patrick Lonergan, and today I’m joined by an incredible guest, Pat Brennan, the CEO and founder of Catalyze Growth Partners. Pat is a true entrepreneur at heart, with an inspiring story that started after being fired from a corporate job, a moment that made him realize he was always destined to build something of his own.
[00:00:40] Patrick Lonergan: In our conversation, Pat shares the lessons he’s learned from his entrepreneurial journey, including how to fail forward. and turn every challenge into a win or learn moment. We’ll dive into his holistic approach to lead generation, marketing, and client acquisition, and how he helps businesses build trust, communicate their values, and attract the right clients.
[00:00:59] Patrick Lonergan: By the end of this episode, you’ll walk away with actionable strategies to adapt to the ever changing market and create a business that not only thrives, but flows effortlessly in generating leads and growth. Before we dive in, if you’re an entrepreneur making over a million dollars a year and you’re not actively working to minimize your tax burden, you’re losing money.
[00:01:19] Patrick Lonergan: That’s exactly what we help with at Vital Strategies. Visit VitalStrategies. com forward slash tax to see how much you could be saving. Pat, I’m excited about this conversation today. Uh, we’re going to look at, um, I think a few things, a little bit of your story about, uh, becoming an entrepreneur. Also talk about, uh, I think maybe financial advisory industry in general, and then, uh, uh, how to, how to acquire, you know, great clients.
[00:01:46] Patrick Lonergan: I think that’s always, uh, A fun, relevant conversation for our, for our listeners. So, uh, today we’ve got on the show, Pat Brennan, uh, CEO and founder of catalyzed growth partners. And, uh, I think this is going to be a fun time. Thanks for joining us here today.
[00:02:00] Pat Brennan: Yeah. Thanks Patrick. I’m really looking forward to our conversation.
[00:02:04] Patrick Lonergan: Very good. So I’d like to just start off and hear a little bit about your story and how you got into, uh, entrepreneurship in general. I think that, um. Most people that have survived as an entrepreneur have a story it’s, uh, uh, we all think society thinks that, Oh, I’m just going to be the entrepreneur, you know, they have all the time and all the money and the reality is they put in the most time and generally, uh, are the last ones to get paid when, when things go sideways.
[00:02:31] Patrick Lonergan: So. Uh, can you fill us in a little bit on, on your story of, uh, uh, your journey as an entrepreneur?
[00:02:37] Pat Brennan: Yeah. So, um, I think there was always a, a desire to, to create a business. Um, and it took me a really long time to actually do it. Just because I had no idea how to, right. I thought there was supposed to be a plan or there was supposed to be a path.
[00:02:55] Pat Brennan: Um, my parents both took traditional paths, uh, paths. My, uh, dad is a, uh, banker. My mom was a school teacher. And so I was really the first entrepreneur in the family. So there was, uh, limited resources from them in, you know, how do you actually do this? Um, but despite that in. Uh, when I was at around, I think I was 22, I was still in school.
[00:03:20] Pat Brennan: I decided to do like a college pro painting, uh, business. Um, and that was the first time that I ever understood like, you know, what does business look like? Well, how do you market your business? How do you do sales? Um, how do you manage people? Like I was hiring, um, you know, painters. Um, and it was just like a colossal failure.
[00:03:42] Pat Brennan: Um, I, uh, I made some money, but it was just like, it was. Some jobs didn’t go as well as I wanted to, you know, some irate customers just managing those relationships, um, and, and just feeling like for some of those situations, not great, um, some of them jobs were went really well, um, but that was my first, you know, introduction to this, um.
[00:04:04] Pat Brennan: And then once I graduated school, I realized I didn’t want to be, you know, a lifelong painter or run a painting business. And so I, uh, jumped into, um, the early stages of the food delivery, um, business. So they, uh, the founder went to, I think it was, uh, Indonesia and he noticed food delivery existed there, but it didn’t exist here.
[00:04:27] Pat Brennan: And so he created a business and that business eventually got. But by another big business in the US, uh, sorry, in Europe and, uh, the, I remember the day where I’m sitting, um, at lunch and I just had heard that Uber was doing like Uber eats for the first time and, and, and like immediately when I heard that.
[00:04:50] Pat Brennan: I was like, Oh my God, like this is going to be, this is going to be insane. Like we’re competing against the behemoth that Uber was then. And I mean, now they’re a publicly traded company, but the, the tactics that they were using and the aggressive nature of, of growing the business and. You know, just the unlimited coffers of money that they had.
[00:05:10] Pat Brennan: Um, I didn’t realize that that specific moment, but over time started to realize like just how, how much you can learn from competing with a business like that, um, was, was really great. So, um, that was a great experience and I always wanted to be a part of something, you know, fast growing. Um, and then I kind of, for a couple of years, I kind of just bounced around.
[00:05:30] Pat Brennan: I didn’t really know what I wanted. Um, I was in multiple sales roles. And, uh, I knew that like I wanted to do something big, but it took me, I mean, probably after that, um, another, uh, six to seven years until I actually started, you know, my own business. So, um, really interesting story. I saw this guy online who posted about this course and, uh, it really resonated with me.
[00:05:56] Pat Brennan: It was the first time that I could see something where I was like, business kind of made sense to me at that point, right? It was just like the pieces. That all come in place. Even when I was at college pro, I didn’t really understand it at this level. And he just did a really good job of outlining it to me.
[00:06:11] Pat Brennan: So I bought the program and I went through it and it gave me the framework and the, the contract to go get, um, a, my first client. And so, uh, uh, there was a referral, um, from another client that I had when I was working as a sales rep, they introduced me and I just basically followed that framework and that was how my business started.
[00:06:33] Pat Brennan: So, yeah.
[00:06:34] Patrick Lonergan: I love it. I love it. And, and I, I think one of the things that we, we underestimate the value of is those, those early experiences in, uh, college pro when you’re painting houses, right? Uh, all of the, the trials that you went through, I think you call them failures. And I think as an entrepreneur, we, we consider, you know, failing forward, right?
[00:06:56] Patrick Lonergan: Like we just keep, uh, Uh, learning and growing and developing as we continue to screw things up. Cause we, we think we’ve got it all figured out, but, um, uh, rarely do we, and, you know, I, so there’s the fail forward or there’s the win or you learn, you know, not win or lose, but win or learn. And, uh, uh, I think both of those things are, are really hard because I, you talk about our education system and process, right?
[00:07:21] Patrick Lonergan: We’re incentivized not to fail, to not make mistakes, to not push the bounds and, and possibly do something that, uh, Is going to sort of test the limits of, you know, what the teacher is sort of trying to teach us and the way we’re approaching it, uh, we’re sort of, uh, you know, the education system sort of puts us in a box.
[00:07:40] Patrick Lonergan: And, um, so, uh, I love the fact that you got exposed to some of that early on and went, okay, you know, there’s a lot of hard here, but there’s also. Um, a lot of value in, uh, being an entrepreneur and, uh, setting out on your own. So, yeah, I think that’s fantastic.
[00:07:58] Pat Brennan: Yeah. And I should mention too, I haven’t said this publicly because I’ve kind of been embarrassed about it, but, um, a lot of the roles that I had, I got fired from, and the reason why now looking at like the reason why I was fired is because I was, and I believe this now is I was meant to be an entrepreneur, I just couldn’t fit as like a cog in a wheel for me personally.
[00:08:19] Pat Brennan: Um, and I always wanted more. So I always wanted to put my hands in other things to make things better because I couldn’t just go a nine to five and then be done. Right? Um, and I worked in like boiler room. Um, like I worked for a currency broker out of the UK and I was calling like making 120 or 130 calls a day, cold calls a day to businesses.
[00:08:39] Pat Brennan: Um, and like just those experiences, right? You just learned so much through them. Um, and it, it just, every time that, you know, I would move on to the next thing because I was let go, or, you know, the company that I worked for, they shut down. So that also happened. Um, it just made you like that much stronger and really has been.
[00:09:00] Pat Brennan: You know, the DNA of, of how I operate today.
[00:09:02] Patrick Lonergan: Yeah, I love it. You know, there’s, um, there’s some scripture in James one, two, that says rejoice in the trials, you know, like, wait a minute, I don’t want to, I don’t want to rejoice through the, but it talks about what happens to us from building perseverance and how we learn and grow, and, uh, I think there’s just so much value.
[00:09:18] Patrick Lonergan: I don’t learn anything actually when, or I don’t learn as much when everything’s going smoothly. It’s when things go sideways that I stopped for a second. I look around and go, how did I get here? What did I do wrong? What can I do better next time? And so. Uh, I appreciate that. And I, I totally agree. Um, you know, I, I’ve looked at myself and I’ve been, I dropped out of law school, had a full scholarship, uh, to become an entrepreneur.
[00:09:42] Patrick Lonergan: Uh, but from the get go, even the jobs I had, I was, I was always looking at it from the angle of like, I didn’t understand why anybody stayed employed in there. I’m like, why do they, why do they not just go like start their own thing? I like, I had this DNA inside of me where I’m constantly trying to break things, you know, to make them better.
[00:09:59] Patrick Lonergan: But most of the time, that’s not what the business owner or the business wants. They’re like, just, just do what I hired you to do. And I’m like, okay. So, uh, I think there’s, there’s something to, uh, being wired certainly and being almost unemployable. So, uh, yeah, I think that’s, uh. I think that’s fantastic. So can you tell us a little bit about catalyzed growth partners and the work you’re doing there?
[00:10:22] Pat Brennan: Yeah. So, um, the, the business, when I originally started, it was just with one client. So, um, I really just got them as a client and, you know, I thought, well, I’m going to work my butt off to make sure that these guys get a really good result. Um, they’re really good people and, um, I, the way that I’ve always thought about business is that your, your, uh, case studies and your testimonials are really your business because if you don’t have good case studies or good testimonials, like you don’t really have a business, right?
[00:10:51] Pat Brennan: And so, um, that has been my focus is just focus on getting them a good result. So. Um, in, uh, just under a year, we almost tripled their business, and they ended up getting acquired by a huge player, basically their, their dream client in the space. Um, so that was a really good, um, outcome, and, uh, from there, moved over the agreement with the larger company, so that was great, um, which is still my client today.
[00:11:18] Pat Brennan: Um, and then decided, you know what, I think that I can help other businesses. So, um, now we’ve really just been focusing on expanding those services to, uh, to other businesses. Um, but it’s all, it’s all just come back to like the information that I’ve learned throughout the times that I’ve been at with these other companies.
[00:11:36] Pat Brennan: Um, and the main thing for us is, is helping, um, primarily our clients are in the insurance or financial advisory space and they’re looking to grow their business. And we provide them a holistic solution where from lead generation to offer creation, um, to appointment setting, um, and then, uh, because we’re not registered, obviously, we don’t do the sales component of that.
[00:12:01] Pat Brennan: But up until that point, we take over that entire process for businesses, uh, and then improve it every way. So that includes. Um, paid ads. We also do, uh, video content, um, built out like a class structure to help like funnel prospects through a, uh, class structure to warm them up prior to becoming, you know, open to having an appointment.
[00:12:25] Pat Brennan: Um, so there’s a variety of different mechanisms, but that’s, uh, where our business is today. So,
[00:12:30] Patrick Lonergan: yeah, I love it. I’m going to pick an extreme example. I can see somebody on LinkedIn I’ve never met before and go, Oh, Hey, that person looks like an ideal client. I’m going to call them out of the blue and have a conversation with them about how they should be a client.
[00:12:43] Patrick Lonergan: Right. It’s the equivalent of calling up a girl and going, Hey, you know what we should do? Get married. You look like you check all the boxes for me. And she’s like, hold on. Right. I don’t know anything about you. What, what are we doing here? It’s an extreme example, that client could go, yes, that’s exactly what I need.
[00:13:02] Patrick Lonergan: Let’s do it. Let’s go get, uh, let’s effectively get married and, you know, start the engagement. Or if I switch that around, you know, my, my calling up the girl analogy. Um, and I say, Hey, you look amazing. Uh, everything about you looks like it checks a lot of the boxes. I’d love to take you on a first date.
[00:13:22] Patrick Lonergan: Are you open to that? You know, and then, and then you go on that first date. And, and I think that’s where, what you were talking about around like building out the course and the content, like, Hey, let’s, let’s introduce you to who we are, how we think move you along in the process. And then at some point you’ll go, all right, you’re delivering tremendous value to me, let’s, let’s engage, right?
[00:13:41] Patrick Lonergan: Let’s, let’s become a client, uh, beyond what we’re doing here in the, the core side of things. Uh, is that, is that a fair assessment of how you’re, you’re putting together? Uh, some of your, your marketing too, because I think sales and marketing have to work really well together. I can have the best sales process in the world, but if I don’t have any marketing to bring people in, it’s no good.
[00:14:01] Patrick Lonergan: And if I’m bringing people in and I don’t have any way to like. Convert them into clients. Like I don’t have the skills necessarily necessary to do that. That’s also a problem. So,
[00:14:10] Pat Brennan: yeah,
[00:14:10] Patrick Lonergan: yeah.
[00:14:11] Pat Brennan: Yeah. So I would, I would definitely say yes. And I actually, you know, as our business, we, we, um, for our clients, we do this really well for ourselves.
[00:14:20] Pat Brennan: Ironically, we don’t do it that well. And that’s something that I’m changing this year. Um, because we need to leverage the same things that we’re building for our clients. Um, but yeah, I mean, that’s exactly it. People. We’ll start there and this doesn’t matter if it’s b2c or b2b I look at business as b2p right like p2p rather.
[00:14:40] Pat Brennan: It’s people to people right and so People are gonna start their research online, right and they’re gonna go through the content that you’re gonna have They’re gonna you know, look you up on LinkedIn If you have a YouTube channel You know, they have information that they’re going to look at. Um, and I’ve actually seen, um, clients, uh, or sorry, not clients, prospects that, um, have implemented a system where you have to go through four or five videos on their YouTube before they even start the sales process with you.
[00:15:12] Pat Brennan: So, um, there’s so much. Information online, and it’s really easy to get access to that information. We’re not living in a world, you know, where you, you are, as a salesperson are the holder of the information, it’s available everywhere. And so if you’re a business and you’re not providing that to people to help them, you know, get warmed up in the sales process, you just had a disadvantage.
[00:15:35] Pat Brennan: Um, so
[00:15:37] Patrick Lonergan: yeah, yeah. I, I just read a book, uh, A client, another podcast guest just recommended it to me called, um, they ask you answer and, um, very much about what you’re talking about. Like, let’s, let’s, let’s think about, and let’s actually take the actual questions they’re asking us and let’s create content to help answer those.
[00:15:59] Patrick Lonergan: And, um, not necessarily answer it, pointing it all back to us from a sales perspective. Let’s just be an authority in this space. So people go, wow, I trust you. I trust you to give me the right answer, whether it’s your firm or somebody else. Like, um, and I think that can be awfully hard to do as, uh, as business owners to go, Hey, I’m the best answer might not be with us, you know?
[00:16:21] Patrick Lonergan: And I can give you an example of that. Like somebody could show up to us and go, Hey, I, um, I like to have my hands on the investment side and, you know, this is exactly how I believe investment should be managed. And it’s like, I don’t know if we’re going to be a great fit for you, because we might think somewhat different.
[00:16:39] Patrick Lonergan: And so the best thing for you is actually go set up an account at Schwab or Vanguard or wherever, and like self manage that thing. And here’s a few guardrails to think about when you’re doing that. And, and because I think if we try to take that person on. It’s just going to be brain damage for both of us.
[00:16:56] Patrick Lonergan: We’re going to be frustrated with each other at the end of the day. They’ll they’ll disengage anyway. So, um, I, I think that, uh, sort of being the thought leader in the space and sort of just providing a ton of value, like curating information for people, I think is, is valuable and builds a ton of trust.
[00:17:11] Patrick Lonergan: So. Uh, I, I love what you’re doing there.
[00:17:14] Pat Brennan: The, the thing that I’ve, I’ve realized I’ve, I’ve probably spoken to over a thousand advisors and all these advisors are not starting fresh, right? Like they have clients already. Um, and one of the challenges that they have is like, how do I, how do I communicate my value and how do I attract people?
[00:17:31] Pat Brennan: Like, they’re not saying this specifically, but this is what I’m hearing is that like, we’re not attracting enough people to increase the flow of opportunities that are coming through or leads. Um, and we don’t know how to do that. And the really interesting thing that, um, has really helped me. And this is what I do with every one of our clients.
[00:17:50] Pat Brennan: The first thing that I tell them is go interview your clients. Like go ask them specifically, like, why did they join? Why did they join or decide to work with you and not with other people? What specifically were they looking for when they did, when they were searching for, you know, another. Uh, advisor, or I mean, this could be applied to any business to other businesses, um, but I don’t think enough businesses do that and really take the time to sit down with them in a format like that we’re doing, but really just asking questions and clients, especially if they like working with you, which for in the advisory business, the churn rate is extremely low, right?
[00:18:29] Pat Brennan: So they’re, they’re going to like working with you. Um, you can just get so much information and that will help be dictate, you know, what you should be marketing, right? Like if you’re talking about, um, an investment, right? Different types of investments. People don’t care about that right now. What they care about is they care about taxes.
[00:18:47] Pat Brennan: They care about RMDs, right? Um, and, uh, they care about distribution strategies. So why would you make information or, you know, content around investments when these are the things that people care about the most? And the only way that you would know that is by, you know, going through and having conversations with your clients.
[00:19:07] Pat Brennan: Or if you’re in a situation, like you’re an advisor, picking up on those things and writing them down and say, okay, this is what I’m going to make content on because this is what constantly people are asking me about.
[00:19:18] Patrick Lonergan: Yeah. Yeah. I love that. And, and I want to go back to something you said earlier and apply it to your situation and also advisors.
[00:19:25] Patrick Lonergan: And, you know, I can even see it in our own firms. One of the first things you mentioned was you, you, you helped the business business triple in revenue, right? We, we, we, we had tremendous growth. The only way that happens is. Outside of some, some real unique thing is it’s not going to happen through a natural market, just taking referrals.
[00:19:49] Patrick Lonergan: Cause that that’s going to be much more. Uh, linear versus the exponential growth. Right. And so, uh, I think you probably saw that in your firm. You were like, I’m okay with linear growth for the time being, but now we’re going to start, we’re, we’re ready to like scale and grow at a massive level, and we’re going to start applying these principles because we need growth that will come in and we need to foster.
[00:20:10] Patrick Lonergan: Cause an interesting thing that happens with the referral is. I’m transferring all of the client’s trust to the prospect, right? They’re saying, Hey, this person’s amazing. They do great work. Uh, and so they’re going great. If John trusts them, I can trust them, we’re in good shape. The, the person searching on the internet has none of that trust that they can lean on, right?
[00:20:34] Patrick Lonergan: They, they find you through, you know, a podcast or a website or a blog article or some paid ads you’re doing. And they’re like, okay, who is this person? Right now I need to, I need to start building that trust. And I, I see that start to happen through. The content we’re putting out, like I’ve had people reach out to me ready to engage just because they’ve interacted with enough of our content and they’re like, I know who you are.
[00:20:59] Patrick Lonergan: I know how you think. And I’m like, this is amazing. I’ve never talked to you before. I don’t even know your name. Uh, so if we really want to scale, like we have to bring both the marketing and the sales piece into, uh, to drive that forward. So I don’t know if you want to talk any more about that, but I think that’s a key piece, like referrals are great.
[00:21:17] Patrick Lonergan: But if you want to start growing beyond that, you’ve got to dial things up.
[00:21:21] Pat Brennan: Yeah, I’ve actually been thinking about this a lot recently. Um, and it, it really depends like what that, the, the business person wants to do, right? Like if we’re talking about building something like a business, the purpose of business is building something.
[00:21:34] Pat Brennan: Built is obviously to help customers. Like that’s the number one thing you’re helping people solve a problem and doing it more efficiently than, you know, other businesses are doing, uh, are doing it. But really we’re creating enterprise value. So if we’re talking about how we’re creating enterprise value, like you have to have systems and you have to have processes in order to create that enterprise value.
[00:21:55] Pat Brennan: So there’s a lot of, um, advisors that I would say that they are like creating a business. And the reason why I say this is because this is what I did when I first started. I thought I had a business, but I didn’t really cause I didn’t have processes or systems in place. Um, but like I would say, like they’re, they built kind of like a lifestyle business, which is totally fine.
[00:22:14] Pat Brennan: And that’s okay. If that’s what you want to do, if you really want to make like a much larger impact, and this was kind of a realization that I had is that, um, you know, you get to a point where. Money, whatever that, that limit of money is to make you happy. It’s it’s limited, right? You hit that ceiling and then it doesn’t really matter how much more money you make, the marginal happiness that you have, or the marginal feeling of purpose that you have is reduced greatly.
[00:22:40] Pat Brennan: Um, but helping more people, um, and that doesn’t mean just customers. That means, um, employees as well, right? Get like a steady paycheck. Like that’s the next purpose. So if, if the purpose is to attain that in the most efficient way possible and grow something that, um, is, is large, then, you know, you have to have a referral process, you have to build out content.
[00:23:05] Pat Brennan: Um, you have to look at growing your business as like an absolute necessity. Um, because the frame now is not just, well, I want to just create like a nice life for my family. It’s, I have a much larger purpose and I need to create these systems so that I create enterprise value that maybe for an individual that wants to sell it, you know, it’s, it’s worth it.
[00:23:24] Pat Brennan: Or at the very least, it’s a cash flowing business that you can disconnect yourself from, um, and just runs by itself. So
[00:23:34] Patrick Lonergan: I love that. And. I think you’re hitting on a key thing. I just read Cody Sanchez’s book called Main Street Millionaire. And she’s talking about the number of small enterprises out there.
[00:23:47] Patrick Lonergan: Um, and I think financial advisory could fit into this bucket, but, uh, it could also be the plumber, the electrician, that type of thing. What they’ve done is they’ve developed a job for themselves, right? It might be a fairly high paying job, but if you take those people out of that business, It completely stops running that there’s no systems and processes there’s, I can’t show up and go, all right, uh, I’m going to read the manual and hire a few people and like, just get them plugged into the systems and run the thing.
[00:24:16] Patrick Lonergan: And I think you see, uh, a huge percentage of financial advisory firms that way. Um. It’s, it’s totally dependent on the, uh, the advisor to go get the business, execute on the business. They might have an assistant to help with some of that. They might have either another advisor to help take some of the business that they’re no longer interested in working on, but, um, That’s there’s no enterprise value in that business, right?
[00:24:45] Patrick Lonergan: Like I might be able to sell the, the recurring revenue that comes to another advisor, but, uh, I’m not going to have a, a huge valuation there, private equity is not going to be knocking on my door to go, Hey, uh, we want to buy this thing from you. So, um, yeah, I think those distinctions are, are really important.
[00:25:03] Patrick Lonergan: Um, and I think setting the expectation for the advisor to go, look, if you want this to be something that has tremendous value, you have to start. Not just growing the revenue piece, but the systems and the processes. So you can step outside of the business and let it be self managing. Uh, we’re, we’re big believers in, uh, Dan Sullivan’s strategic coach.
[00:25:22] Patrick Lonergan: I’ve been a part of strategic coach for a few years and, uh, uh, I like the idea. And. This is forced, uh, when you start adopting this, it forces it on the business. But Dan talks a lot about 150 free days a year. Okay? So if you think about that, there’s 52 weekends a year. So there’s 104 days plus some holidays, uh, say we’re up to call it 135, uh, or 115 free days.
[00:25:49] Patrick Lonergan: Now, now I’ve got 35 free days left to use and I’ve already used up my weekends. That’s seven whole weeks off. If you start taking that approach, you have to build a business that can run without you because, you know, pretty quickly you start leaving and then it causes a bunch of pain. And it goes back to one of our early points about, uh, failing forward or you win or you learn, you know?
[00:26:10] Patrick Lonergan: And it’s like, Oh, okay. I’m starting to get exposed here on the areas of my business that, um, uh, that are weak. And so, uh, you have to train and develop people, right? That’s sort of like. Key, you know, AI might be able to do it all someday, but it’s not there yet. So I’ve got to train and develop people and then, uh, uh, have good systems and processes that I can get people, uh, plugged into.
[00:26:32] Patrick Lonergan: So, um, yeah, I think, I think those are, uh, fantastic realizations on, uh, you know, if we’re really going to drive enterprise value, those are, those are things that need to happen there. I don’t know if you have any additional thoughts or comments on that, but I thought, uh, that was worthwhile.
[00:26:47] Pat Brennan: Yeah, I think, I mean, the one thing that I’ve been seeing in this, in this business, um, The financial advisory business in particular is that, um, and actually it’s funny because I had a conversation with somebody that, um, their business is about a billion dollars in assets under management and he’s like, we’re just way, like our industry is way overpaid for the value that we provide.
[00:27:08] Pat Brennan: And I dug into that a little bit deeper and he just said, the toughest part is acquiring a client, but when, when you get one, it’s like really difficult for them to leave just because of all the, you know, the. Um, the hooks in, in, uh, making sure that people don’t leave, uh, it was really interesting that he said that because.
[00:27:26] Pat Brennan: Um, it’s in his view, the fastest way that businesses have been growing is through acquisition, but even in acquisition, you know, now people are getting older, the business that you have just acquired is not staying right because their money is moving to somebody else. And then those kids are, you haven’t built a relationship with.
[00:27:45] Pat Brennan: So you’re like, what are you really buying? Right. Um, and he’s starting to realize that. And he’s also, he also mentioned that, uh, fee compression is. Is making it much more difficult to make this business, uh, more profitable. Um, yet in my experience, uh, not a lot of advisors are looking at different ways of creating a revenue.
[00:28:06] Pat Brennan: Um, I know that the larger ones definitely are, they’re adding, you know, tax planning or they’re adding, um, insurance into their business. But there are a lot of businesses that are just like, I make money over AUM. And it’s like, um, you know, those businesses I think will, will struggle in the next, uh, 10, 20, 30 years because they just, they’re not, they’re not adapting to where the market is moving.
[00:28:28] Pat Brennan: So,
[00:28:29] Patrick Lonergan: yeah, absolutely. And I, I couldn’t agree with you more, uh, about our industry and, and I, I think about, uh, our largest revenue source is actually consulting revenue. Uh, it’s not a U M and. Um, we just believe in the flat fee model. I’m just going to walk through the problems I see with both the commission model, right?
[00:28:47] Patrick Lonergan: If I’m selling commission investments and those that’s been on the way out for a while, but I also see the AUM model has problems as well. Right. So let’s just start off with commissions, right? The, and this can go into the insurance category could go investment products. Like there’s, there’s still a lot of commission stuff out there.
[00:29:06] Patrick Lonergan: So like we do, we have some clients that, uh, go into oil and gas investments. Now, the firm that has those, we work with a few different firms, but they, they pay commissions where we’re like, we don’t want the commission. So what happens is the client puts, let’s say 200, 000 in, and instead of paying us a 6 percent commission, that all just gets added into their investment.
[00:29:24] Patrick Lonergan: So the client’s like, Hey, cool. I just got like a 6 percent bump in my equity from the get go. That’s, uh. That’s pretty neat where we can’t get rid of the commissions. We donate them to charity. We’re just like, okay, life insurance. Uh, if there’s an annuity piece, something along those lines that, um, you know, I could send them out into the marketplace, but now I just transferred the problem from, you know, me having a.
[00:29:49] Patrick Lonergan: Misaligned incentive to somebody else having a misaligned incentive. So it’s like, why don’t we get you the right thing? And then we’re just going to donate all the money to charity. Like I don’t have a financial incentive. I’m not going on a vacation or buying a car with, uh, uh, this stuff. And then. Uh, going to the AUM model, my problem there is if your complexity doesn’t change from, let’s say a million dollars of assets under management to 2 million of assets under management, why am I charging you twice as much money, right?
[00:30:18] Patrick Lonergan: Yeah. Depending on the fee structure, I could be charging you twice as much money to do the same amount of work. I don’t, I don’t understand the model where I’m charging you based on the value you bring versus the value I deliver. Um, and so. Uh, we just look at that and we’re like, okay, forget that model.
[00:30:35] Patrick Lonergan: Like we’re, we’re going to mix both the consulting and the AUM together. Um, and generally our consulting fees are way higher than what the client has for AUM. And so, um, but we’ll offset for every million dollars of AUM they bring in, we’ll, we’ll reduce down the consulting fee. And it actually, we make less money on the AUM than we do the consulting.
[00:30:56] Patrick Lonergan: But, um, cause we, again, we like to pull the levers for the client to make sure that. Hey, here’s the tax strategy. Let us help you execute on this. But, um, you know, we, we went back and did the math and we save our clients over 280, 000 of income tax, and they might pay us 60 to 70, 000. Uh, we’ve got some at the 3, 000 a month range.
[00:31:18] Patrick Lonergan: So there’s. 35 to 40, 000 a year. So it’s like in, in those scenarios, like the value we’re delivering is a multiple of what they’re paying us. So we feel pretty good about that. Like there’s no, no concern and it’s really high touch and we’re helping them accelerate the value of their business and, you know, all those enterprise value things we were talking about, though, I don’t know.
[00:31:36] Patrick Lonergan: I I’m a little bit on my, um, rant here on just the, the industry in general, but I think we should, as an industry probably move to more of a flat fee Not the only problem I have with that is. If somebody doesn’t have many assets, right, uh, doesn’t have much income, it’s really hard for them to get good advice.
[00:31:58] Patrick Lonergan: You know, uh, the internet and the information age and AI is sort of democratizing that a little bit. Uh, if I really dig into it, I can go find some, some answers, but I think there’s also a concern about things like crypto, right? People could put all their money into crypto thinking, Oh, this is a wise financial move and it’s like some crypto investments.
[00:32:18] Patrick Lonergan: Okay. But I probably shouldn’t have all of my wealth in, in any one particular thing. You know, um, I don’t, those are, those are just the. Some, some random thoughts on industry. I don’t know if you have anything to expand on there, but, um,
[00:32:31] Pat Brennan: yeah, I, I would just say that there’s like the, the incentives are just not fully aligned.
[00:32:36] Pat Brennan: Right. And I think that they’re kind of starting to unravel and, um, and I mean, our business, like we take a revenue share, right, but there’s. Like my, our goal is to take 20 to 30 percent of the value that we create for our clients. And, and I show clients like how that is going to happen. Right. Um, we’re, we’re just, you know, there is an incentive for us to do a better job.
[00:32:58] Pat Brennan: Whereas in like the AUM model, it’s, it’s kind of like their incentive is not really there. Like it kind of is because you know, yeah, the market can go up, but like, you’re not really, you’re not controlling that. Right. And so, um, there are other things that you can provide, like some of our clients. We have bonus structures with them based on specific outcomes, right?
[00:33:18] Pat Brennan: Um, and so like that looks like, you know, appointment set or, um, it’s not really a set. It’s more appointment set that are good appointments. Um, based on the outputs that we create, like that’s how we get bonus out. And so those are things that are directly in relation to the, the value that we’re creating.
[00:33:39] Pat Brennan: Uh, for our clients and I think that the industry, uh, financial advisor industry is going to go through that transition at some point. Um, I don’t know how long it’s going to take, but I’m sure that, I mean, the fee compression is probably forcing people to think about other ways to, um, provide value and make money because, because of that.
[00:33:58] Pat Brennan: But yeah.
[00:33:59] Patrick Lonergan: Yeah, I love it. That’s great. Um, so I’m, I’m very interested in, cause we have a number of advisors that also listen to the podcast, just, uh, learning about, you know, uh, how to help their clients pay less tax and build more wealth and, uh, live an optimized life. So when we, we think about that, I I’m very interested, uh, maybe we continue this conversation outside of the podcast, but, um, you know, we, we like the idea of growing and scaling our business.
[00:34:27] Patrick Lonergan: Great. so much. You know, we’re doing that because we, we’ve got a mission that we think matters. Um, you know, I think the, the ultimate mission is to help people live an optimized life. A secondary mission is I can’t stand sending money to the IRS. Every dollar I send to the IRS is like flushing it down the toilet.
[00:34:45] Patrick Lonergan: Like there’s no value that really comes out of that. Uh, it gets chewed up in the bureaucracy. And, uh, so. Uh, our goal is to save a billion dollars of income tax, right? Uh, and just leave that in the entrepreneur’s hands to, to build more wealth. They drive the, the U S economy, uh, and, and let’s let them, you know, all of the work and energy they’ve put in, let’s let them like build this optimized life.
[00:35:09] Patrick Lonergan: So, um, and then I think there’s a whole different discussion on understanding what an optimized life is, right? Uh, it’s this acronym called reach relationships, experiences, advancement, or growth. The C is for contribution, the H is for our health, and that’s our spiritual, emotional, and physical health. And so, um, it’s not more, more zeros on the bank account, right?
[00:35:32] Patrick Lonergan: That’s, that’s not, uh, that’s not an optimized life. So, so that’s sort of our mission. And so I want to expand that mission. I want, I want as many people as possible sort of in our. You know, ecosystem going, yes, I’m, I’m dialed into this. Let’s let’s grow and do this. So if somebody else is in that same camp as me, what does it look like?
[00:35:51] Patrick Lonergan: If somebody comes along and says, Pat, uh, have catalyzed, you know, help me grow my business. Um, can you just walk us through what that. That process looks like what you, you do when you, you onboard somebody and, uh, walk through that.
[00:36:06] Pat Brennan: Yeah. So, um, a lot of, a lot of what we’re going to be doing is pulled out through the process when we’re having the conversation, right?
[00:36:13] Pat Brennan: Um, the, uh, quality of the questions really will dictate. Um, well, the, the quality of the answers, but also like what you’re actually going to create for somebody, right? Um, and that’s why we, we don’t have like, um, you know, one size fits all for everybody because there’s different ways to grow businesses based on the variables that are presented and the quality of the discovery will.
[00:36:38] Pat Brennan: We’ll dictate like how well you’re able to attach those or align those goals that your prospect is trying to accomplish with what you’re actually delivering for them. Um, so for everybody, I build a plan based on a deep discovery. Like sometimes it goes over an hour and that’s, and I, I purposely don’t rush it.
[00:36:56] Pat Brennan: So if we run out of time, I’m not saying, okay, well, I’m going to build something for you. I go into the next discovery and say, if I don’t understand exactly what you’re trying to accomplish in the pain that it’s causing you, then. I’m not going to build something for you because I’m going to miss something.
[00:37:11] Pat Brennan: And then, you know, we’re going to go into a relationship. It’s not going to be what you want. You’re going to cancel. And then it’s just wasted our time and it’s wasted yours because we’re looking for longer term clients. It’s really just understanding what they’re trying to accomplish in a really deep, um, level.
[00:37:28] Pat Brennan: And then taking some time to really evaluate, like what would be, if I were this person and this was my business, how would I approach this problem? Um, And so it’s really building out, um, a process. And for most businesses that I speak with, their offer is just not, um, it’s not optimized. So they either offer something that’s very similar to something else, um, or they’ve just decided like the AUM thing, right?
[00:37:56] Pat Brennan: They just, this is, I charge 1 percent and they can’t justify it. And what happens is people get commoditized because they just look at you and you’re like, you’re like everybody else. So. Um, the first thing that we do is really optimize the offer. Um, there, the way that we’re able to do that is back to what I was saying before, which is interviewing your clients.
[00:38:14] Pat Brennan: So I, I, and there’s two purposes of that. One is to get the information so you can build an offer that resonates with the market, but secondly, is to get case studies, right? To get people to publicly say that they like working with you for these reasons, because that’s going to help improve the sales process.
[00:38:32] Pat Brennan: So that’s usually the first. The second method is just creating flow, right? Um, I think a lot of business owners, they don’t, they, especially if they’re in a referral based business, they don’t understand that, you know, you need to create flow, which is like leads or opportunities of people that. May never even buy a majority of them will probably never buy from you But you need to create flow in your business to get new opportunities And in every you know business that I’ve worked in In any literature that I’ve ever looked at everything staying the same If you just increase the amount of leads that you have you’ll increase the amount of revenue that you have for your business, right?
[00:39:12] Pat Brennan: Um, so that’s the second thing that we typically do. Uh, the third thing is, is some sort of business development component. So, um, that can include like the marketing to support that. So creating the content, creating the information. But there’s some sort of, um, Um, factor where we have our, our team or there’s outreach to those people to create those opportunities.
[00:39:39] Pat Brennan: Um, and then, uh, final component of that is, is what’s the supporting documentation to warm people up to help that business development process. So it’s either a three or four prong. Uh, solution, um, but it’s customized like the, the actual mechanism, whether it’s like YouTube or it’s, you know, Facebook ads or it’s Google or it’s a referral structure, that’s all customized based on that individual client.
[00:40:04] Patrick Lonergan: I love it. I love it. So I’ve got a few, uh, follow ups there that I’m, I’m. Just interested in. So what does it take for the advisor? Uh, cause I think you, um, from a time commitment perspective, right? Like we’ve got our meetings, but what do I need to do outside of those meetings to help execute on all those things?
[00:40:24] Patrick Lonergan: Cause I, I think about where our firm’s going and I’m seeing my role being more and more on the, uh, you know, we’re, we’re working on. High level strategy, I’m working on, you know, how do I get this strategy in the content, the framework that we’re developing out there to the world. Um, I’m solving the most complex tax problems in our firm, but I’m not doing, I haven’t touched, uh, paperwork in a long, long time, right?
[00:40:52] Patrick Lonergan: And I shouldn’t be. Um, and so. Uh, but there’s some people that are in the mix, right? They’re doing all this stuff and to add a new thing into, you know, uh, their, their firm, I imagine on your end, there’s actually a little bit of a screening process, right? Like, are you positioned well to be able to take on new business?
[00:41:08] Patrick Lonergan: Cause if it’s just you running around like a, uh, chicken without a head, that that’s not effective, you know, business management structure. Um. Cause you can only run around so fast before this, this whole, the wheels fall off this thing. So,
[00:41:21] Pat Brennan: yeah, there has to be like a desire to grow, right? Like, um, if somebody’s like, I want to add another million dollars in AUM this year, it’s just not a great fit for us.
[00:41:30] Pat Brennan: Right. Um, but, um, if someone’s like, you know, I really want to grow, I want to double my business or I want to add, you know, an extra 30 percent this year and they don’t know how to do it. That’s what we’re looking for in terms of like ideal prospects. Um, in terms of. The level that we provide in terms of the services, uh, really depends on the person.
[00:41:51] Pat Brennan: So I’ll give you an example. One of our clients right now, she’s, um, really involved in the delivery of what we’re like creating for this class. Um, And she just like wants to be involved with it. She doesn’t want to touch like any of the marketing stuff though. So like, like the offer, she wanted us to help her with that.
[00:42:09] Pat Brennan: Um, like landing pages and, um, you know, all the, the automated systems in the backend of like following up with people and like the reminder systems, the payment, how that works, like all that structure in the backend is what we’re building. Um, but I would say that she’s unique and being like wanting to be more involved in that.
[00:42:29] Pat Brennan: I find that most people, they don’t. Um, and then if it comes to content, like we can definitely create content that is not, uh, based on the founder, but in every scenario that I’ve worked with a business and the founders making the content, it, it’s more authentic. Um, and so the results are, are always better, but, um, but yeah, it really just depends on the client and what they’re looking for.
[00:42:53] Patrick Lonergan: I love it. Yeah, no, this is, uh, This is great. So Pat, if somebody wants to engage with you, um, I, they can go to catalyze gp.com, uh, and fill out the form and see if, uh, you know, get on the wait list. I think that’s a great place to start. Is there anything else that, uh, uh, folks should be looking at, uh, in regards to, uh, the work you’re doing and, and how to engage with you?
[00:43:19] Pat Brennan: Yeah, so I definitely will be, um, more public on LinkedIn and probably Twitter. Um, but the, the waiting list that you’ll be joining, I’m going to be adding just some of my thoughts around, uh, business and some of the things that I’m seeing, I’ve been really fortunate to talk with a lot of different advisors.
[00:43:37] Pat Brennan: So, um, I definitely want to start sharing some of those insights that I’m learning from what. People are doing to, um, to grow their business. Like one example is this guy that I know in LA, he’s created like a, like all of his business development is through YouTube, um, is really interesting and that’s how he’s grown his business.
[00:43:55] Pat Brennan: So I want to start sharing more of those insights. Um, and that, that would be the best way. So LinkedIn, um, Twitter, or, uh, through the waiting, um, the waiting list on our website.
[00:44:08] Patrick Lonergan: Sure. Fantastic. We’ll have a links to all of that in the show notes. So people can go check that out. Um, yeah. And I think about, you know, just entrepreneurs in general, right?
[00:44:19] Patrick Lonergan: You know, if we, if we invest in, uh, a client acquisition and growing our business, it, um, there’s challenges with that, right? Like we might have to create new structures and, uh, sort of make the business different than what it started as, but at the end of the day, it gives us. More freedom, more flexibility, more peace of mind.
[00:44:40] Patrick Lonergan: Uh, we can impact more lives, right? If we truly believe in the work we’re doing, um, you know, we’re, we’re making a difference in the world, not just, uh, externally, but also internally with our, our team and, you know, the people that we get impact there. So I, I think that’s fantastic. And then I think about if we don’t, you know, grow and scale the business, you know, there’s, it’s just hard, right?
[00:45:00] Patrick Lonergan: Everything’s dependent on you. Uh, if anything goes sideways, there’s not as much margin when. Uh, it’s a small operation and it’s like, uh, yeah, you’re almost better off. Like just, just go get yourself a job versus, uh, uh, try to grind it out on your own. So, uh, yeah, I, I think this is, uh, this has been fantastic.
[00:45:21] Patrick Lonergan: Anything else, Pat, that we should add to, uh, this discussion before we wrap up?
[00:45:26] Pat Brennan: Yeah, I, I would just say like the, I mean, entrepreneurship is, is very difficult. And, um. I, I hear a lot of people say like, I don’t know if I would do it again if, if, um, if like I thought about this and like I understood how difficult it was, um, but there’s no better feeling of just being free and, and you’re the one that dictates, you know, the decisions that you make because there will be good decisions and there will be terrible decisions.
[00:45:54] Pat Brennan: Um, but at least you have the agency to make those decisions. So, um, and I think like the final piece that is, it’s, it’s okay as well. If that’s not you, I truly believe that there are people that want to do that, but there is also room for people that, you know, really want to work hard throughout the day, but then just be totally disconnected.
[00:46:13] Pat Brennan: Um, and in order for businesses to operate, we need both people. So.
[00:46:18] Patrick Lonergan: I love it, Pat. We first met when you were doing some of your research on, you know, what’s going on in the advisory space and how people are growing. And so I’m, I’m looking forward to, uh, the results of that research and, uh, what’s working and what’s not.
[00:46:31] Patrick Lonergan: And, uh, yeah, I think it’ll be worthwhile to just continue this conversation to, to see how, um, we can. We can grow and develop our firm in a, in a way that just continues to impact more people. So, uh, thanks so much for joining us here today. I appreciate it.
[00:46:46] Pat Brennan: Yeah. Thanks for having me, Patrick.
[00:46:49] Patrick Lonergan: Thank you for tuning into this episode of the Vital Wealth Strategies podcast.
[00:46:53] Patrick Lonergan: It’s always a pleasure to bring these conversations to you and I hope you found it valuable. If there’s one key takeaway from today’s conversation with Pat Brennan, it’s this, building a successful business is about more than just acquiring clients. It’s about creating trust, staying purpose driven, and building systems that allow your business to grow and thrive without relying solely on you.
[00:47:12] Patrick Lonergan: If you’ve enjoyed this episode, be sure to subscribe so you never miss future conversations packed with insights to help you minimize your taxes, master wealth, and optimize your life. If you know someone that would benefit from what we covered today, share this episode with them. And remember, you’re a vital entrepreneur.
[00:47:28] Patrick Lonergan: You’re vital because you’re the backbone of our economy, creating opportunities, driving growth, and making an impact. You’re vital to your family, creating abundance in every aspect of life. You’re vital to me because you’re committed to growing your wealth, leading with purpose and creating something truly great.
[00:47:43] Patrick Lonergan: Thank you for being a part of this incredible community of vital entrepreneurs. I appreciate you and I look forward to having you back here next time on the vital wealth strategies podcast, where we help entrepreneurs minimize their taxes, master wealth and optimize their lives. Thanks again for joining me until next time.