098 | The New Gold Rush: IP, AI, and Blockchain Opportunities with Nirav Murthy

Patrick: [00:00:00] What if the content you’re creating right now, your ideas, your courses, your voice, even your data could be stolen, reused by AI models, and you’d never see a dime of it. That’s the reality many entrepreneurs and creators are facing today. And it’s why this episode is so important. Welcome back to another episode of the Vital Wealth Strategies Podcast.
I’m your host, Patrick Lonergan, and today I am sitting down with Nerv Murphy, the co-founder and CO CEO of Camp Network. Nerv and his team are tackling one of the biggest challenges of our time. How do you protect your intellectual property in an AI driven world? And not just protect it, but actually monetize it.
In this conversation, we dig into why our current system of IP rights is broken, how blockchain is opening up entirely new ways to verify ownership and how entrepreneurs like you can turn your ideas, content, and expertise into assets that generate royalties for years to come. We’ll cover real world cases from entertainment giants like Black [00:01:00] Mirror and SpongeBob, to music festivals, to online courses, and what this means for you as a business owner, if you’ve ever felt frustrated that your hard work isn’t fully protected, or you’ve wondered how you can get paid fairly when others benefit from your knowledge, this episode will give you clear roadmap of what’s possible, and I encourage you to stick with this all the way to the end because thereof shares insights that could completely change.
The way you think about ownership, ai, and new income streams in your business. And while we’re on this subject of building smarter strategies, if you haven’t already, head over to vital strategies.com/tax. That’s where you can begin putting the right tax and wealth strategies in place today so you keep more of what you earn and build the financial foundation to scale your business with confidence.
So grab your notebook, get ready for a mind expanding conversation, and let’s dive in. New Murthy. I’m so excited to have you on the conversation today, on the podcast today, because I think this conversation’s going to be incredible. There is so much opportunity out there [00:02:00] in the AI space, and I think you guys are doing some fantastic work.
So thank you so much for joining us here today. Well,
Nirav: thank you so much. Really excited to be here. I think this is gonna be one of the more fun ones.
Patrick: Yeah. So I, I’m gonna walk through what I see as some of the problems out there, and then we can talk about how. Camp network that you’ve co-founded and are co CEO of is gonna solve some of those problems.
So I just think about AI models and generative tools are increasingly using copyrighted content without attributing that to the owners. So that information and, uh, the current IP infrastructure fragmented, it’s difficult to register. It’s hard to verify provenance, like, who created this thing? Is this actually created or is this AI generated?
It’s hard to enforce the rights and orchestrate fair monetization. I also think about creators feel powerless. I think about some of the lawsuits, and I’m looking forward to getting into that. But there’s a lack of control of how their work’s being used and by whom, uh, and how they’re being rewarded for that.
And there’s also just this fear that their, their [00:03:00] contribution will be diluted, misused or ignored, uh, in this AI driven content ecosystem. And then philosophically, I think it’s just, it’s unjust that creators lose value when their work contributes to AI innovation. But there’s no system ensuring fairness.
Of their ownership and I’m looking forward to resolving all of those problems with how camp does this. Can you give us a little bit of your background? I know you’ve got an extensive background and everything from business to blockchain and so tell us how we got here
Nirav: with you. Yeah, and by the way, thank you so much for that.
I mean, you articulated the problem that we did the solving better than anybody else could have ever, so you, you know, I mean,
Patrick: if
Nirav: you know you ever want to come join us, there’s always a world of the professional sort of marketing side with you as well. Yeah, I mean, quick background on me. I spent, I went to school.
Berkeley obviously had an interest in tech byproduct of being in the Bay Area. Spent four years in the investing and investment banking world, specifically around media, entertainment, gaming, sports, which obviously deals a lot with ip. You know, starting to sort of see a lot of these early onsets of AI and blockchain impact [00:04:00] both those industries in 2021, you know, saw a lot on sort of the NFT cycles and now some of these gaming teams were involved on the ownership side of that.
You know how a lot of these film companies are sort of looking at different forms of financing, which got me interested in the idea of, you know, tokens as capital formation. On the AI side, worked on a couple of really interesting deals. One of the big things was like there was a WGA lawsuit against sort of the screenwriters, uh, that the screenwriters basically followed because, you know, they’re like, why are studios able to use ai?
This is unfair to us. And I think that sort of laid the groundwork of, okay, we’re gonna see a huge battle over the next decade. And this is only three years ago, and I think it’ll even be longer around, you know, whether it’s ip, copyright, and ai, and how do we sort of define who owns what? And obviously this is top of mind for the government.
This is something that we’re really, really interested in, and I think blockchain represents a really unique solution to do so, as you mentioned, with the ideas of provenance and verification, which I think are probably the two most important on that things.
Patrick: Yeah, yeah. No, this is incredible because I think about our clients and our listeners, they’re creating lots of content out [00:05:00] there and there, their IP is there.
There’s a lot of uncertainty as to where it’s, where it’s going, how it’s being used, and it’s really hard to track all of that. So can you walk us through some of the. Strategies that camp has to, you know, if, if I’m an entrepreneur and I’m concerned about my ip, how do I go about resolving some of this, this problem?
Nirav: Yeah, it’s a really good question. I mean, you mentioned sort of it originally where it’s, you have to basically use stuff that happens on chain or verify stuff, and the best way to do that, we believe is blockchain, obviously every rather sort of databases, you know, controlled by one single entity. Sure.
You contend to shareholders and it’s, you know. Voting and whatnot, but they don’t participate in the day-to-day decisions of the company. Let’s be honest, over there, our belief is that the future of Web3 will see new IP created on chain natively. What do I actually mean by that? You know, we look at 95% of IP creation in the future to all be done via ai.
In so far as that’s true, what matters significantly more is proving that you’re the first of something. So that Providence way you mentioned. And so the way that we’ve done this is we believe that the four factor by which users will come onto the [00:06:00] blockchain is the application layer. Obviously in within two to three years, we’re still talking about, you know, hey, I’m gonna go use this because I can.
Airdrop farm. We’re pretty candidly screwed as an industry. You know, it’s time that we see people actually doing some sticky stuff on chain, having retention, and a lot of that comes from the application layer directly. Now, if you believe that to be the case and you see users wanting to use apps, then the best way that we think to sort of register IP and track all that is by plugging it into the develop as the developer SDK director.
So that’s what we built with the origin protocol, which largely consists of the ability for users to onboard their ip, whether that’s, you know, data, songs, images, anything, and registered on chain along with setting terms and conditions around that. That’s sort of the first point of entry that a user really has.
You know, Solana did a really good job of this with a wallet, you know, the Phantom Wall, having a really clean interface that didn’t really turn anybody off, and we think that’s an essential way for onboarding, because fundamentally, every time a user has to click something, you know you’re losing another 80% of that traffic already.
So that’s sort of why we plugged Origin directly [00:07:00] into the application there. Now from there you can do pretty much anything around that and longer term, what we’re launching is Matrix, which is the ability to train and deploy agents based on user owned and verified IP as well. And so that’s what we get substantially excited about over call the next, you know, year or so.
Obviously Matrix going live, what sooner than that, but seeing a lot of the actual data sets and IP sets being built, that will obviously longer term have much more, much more important ramifications.
Patrick: Yeah, and I, I would almost love to take a minute and run down the rabbit trail of blockchain and I’m frustrated that I don’t own everything on the blockchain.
Like I feel like I should register my, like my vehicle should be on the blockchain. My house, like all these sort of antiquated systems are really, I feel like eventually gonna migrate that direction ’cause it’s just such an easier way. Transfer ownership, but not a big spin. Yeah.
Nirav: Yeah. It’s such a good point.
You bring up and like, let’s look at some of the things that most people don’t realize would be better on chain, because obviously everybody says like, oh, blockchain, it’s a scam. Like, you know, what is it? And whatnot. People tend to conflate like crypto with [00:08:00] blockchain and blockchain technology makes massive sense like.
Title insurance. Greatest example, like anybody who’s ever tried to buy a house or and get title insurance knows how much of a pain it is to deal with sort of, you know, that extremely antiquated entity that’s sort of going through to try and find a previous owner and whatnot. You know, you look at Asia a lot of the times ’cause they’re obviously very pollution sensitive.
You have to have a permanent in order to have a car. Imagine trying to go track down the person you don’t know where they are and whatnot, whereas you can basically exchange it. The NFT marketplace has proved how easy that really is, and so I think you hit it on the head with like ownership. You know, again, something I was saying nobody really realizes is we’re in the early innings of blockchain overall as the business.
You know, you look at the internet before the.com boom, it existed, right? But like the use cases were so small, like Mosaic and whatnot as well. Because we’re in such early innings, I think people are scared of what it could potentially be, and until we see some of these existing user behaviors start coming on chain, I think we’ll always be in that place.
But it looks almost more inevitable than anything else at this point.
Patrick: Yeah. Yeah. I love this. So one of the things that I’m generally curious about is, [00:09:00] okay, so let’s prove that I own. Let’s assume I can prove that I own the material for on camp. How do I get paid for that? How do you go about, like, I’ll say collecting if.
I’ll say AI uses my content to, you know, create some, an additional work. How do I get paid for that? I’m generally curious about how we, we, you know, uh, track that down and either shut down the use of that thing or I get paid for the work that I’ve created.
Nirav: It’s really good question. And we’re experiencing with different sides of stuff on like dispute modules.
On an infringement, obviously one option is like banning the wallet and whatnot. Obviously there’s work around problems, but one thing before I sort of get into the, how do I get paid? What camp is doing is not solving the bad actor problem. Like, that’s actually quite literally an impossible problem to solve and we don’t think it’s really worth trying to solve that.
Like give you some example. I never owned an Apple device. That’s one of my like rare fun claims to things, but like back in the day when I had other sort, like MP three players and whatnot, you know, a lot of people would just like go to video to [00:10:00] mp3.net, download like 500 YouTube videos and wait three hours and then somehow like they have more songs on their thing.
Because I think we all always con properly what we think of us more as a, more like a Spotify. For 9 99 a month, you know, you can basically just go out and get pretty much every song you’ve ever listened to in the history of music. That’s kinda what camp seeks to be as well. So the big thing is, you know, it’s not gonna be like, you know, same with NFTs, right?
NFTs are proof of ownership. It’s supposed to be the closest thing on blockchain to perfect as possible. I can still right click somebody’s Twitter image and then say it’s my own, right? So I think all those things are really important to notice and like, mm-hmm. I’m not trying to say we’ve solved every single problem in the history of the world.
What I do think we’ve done is, you know. Create the world’s like sexiest user owned ip, marketplace E in a very designed way, all on chain and user verified, but how people get paid. So as we mentioned, like blockchain is very community centric and people owned. So we think it’s sort of, we shouldn’t be putting prices on their data or anything like that overall.
Mm-hmm. And so we basically give the users the opportunity, let’s just say they’re uploading a song that they want to release, you know, on whether what, whatever [00:11:00] decentralized stream marketplace we have, you know, we have a team like Hitmaker that does this. We can basically set it such that there’s a one-time licensing fee, or that there’s royalties associated with it.
So let’s say I’m like a famous dj, you know, I’m like, oh, cool, I like this sample. I’m gonna put it out on Spotify. Eventually what we do is you’re gonna have to pay 9% or 8% to the original holder that I, Pete. Depending on how much they actually put in. So the user has the choice. Now what’s really interesting is longer term, everybody could be uploading this for free in the first place anyway because it’s all secure and looking to benefit their AI models.
Or what they can also do is sort of just add in the royalty where, you know, if somebody trains a model, all of this, you know, gimme 0.01% or 1 cent every time, the actual, actual model. Mm-hmm. And I think that’s sort of where we’re heading in terms of an industry where. Especially with blockchain, instead of it being like these gross licensing, almost like upfront charges, it’s ownership of the network via royalties overall.
Patrick: Yeah. Yeah. This is great. And so can we talk a little bit more about licensing? Can we compare the current model to the camp model and just, I’m just thinking about the [00:12:00] efficiency that camp creates there in regards to like, you know, I create something and wanna put it out into the world, monetize it versus, uh, we’ll call it the more.
Antiquated model, but yeah, could you talk us through that?
Nirav: Yeah, for sure. I mean, look like licensing is the most antiquated business, or one of the most anti businesses in the world, I should say. You know, it involves lawyers. You have contracts, you’re probably spending about 50,000 to a hundred thousand on every single time that it’s actually used.
One of the benefits to smart contracts is the actual efficiency of it, which is basically just a codified like contract. It is what it is. There’s no other way of really phrasing it. So what that means is in order to actually access the IP in the camp realm or to access the data, you have to comply with the terms.
Otherwise you don’t really get the opportunity to do so. And so you’re not only are you saving money, but you’re saving time and you’re actually verifying that it’s working in the first place because it’s all transparent and able to be seen. Whereas, you know, generally when you see what some of these legals is outside in the black box, you know, nobody really knows.
Okay. Where else can you find the gray area? Yeah. Yeah. I mean, look, I think this is one of the most [00:13:00] exciting things about what we’re doing right now. Like. Uh, and I don’t know if folks saw on how native of your Web3 audience is, but like, you know, black Mirror, you know, like a show way ahead, pitch time. I think everybody would sort of agree with that.
It took them much earlier this year and you know, they’re sort of looking at three to four different things. One of them is provable fandom, like, okay, who are the biggest fans of Black Mirror? Maybe we give them early access to season five or whatever. I think it’s season five right now. You know, there was an episode called Bander Snatch, which basically was really revolutionary at the time because it gave you the opportunity to pick the plot lines or the sort of the flow of the episode.
You know, if Black Mirror sort of says like, okay, this person always focuses on these six episodes, which they can all track. One not because again, we’re starting to see IP come on chain. Then it’s like we can cater content more directly towards him. And then the last one related is super interesting is like Black Mirror, long term wants to tokenize its royalties.
And so if you hold a black mirror, token do get a percentage of their revenue. As I mentioned, the whole world is trending towards incentive alignment as opposed to sort of these like one time fees and whatnot as well. That’s super interesting to me. Um, the token has actually performed super well. It was trading about like 80 million [00:14:00] or a hundred million dollars.
You know, it wasn’t like they raised a ton of money and did a lot of marketing. I think that just shows how proven and actually exciting the community really is. You know, we’ve got a couple other really exciting ones through the pipeline. You know, we’ve got things like Minto, which is one of the bigger Asia IP houses.
We’ve got things like SpongeBob, which I think every 7-year-old in America still watches as well as, you know, things like Narcos. And I think they all get pretty excited by this idea of like, Hey. It’s really hard to launch a stock, but ideally, you know, people would have some sort of stake in our token, if you will, or like stake in our business, if you will.
And tokenizing IP seems to be the best way to do that. You know, we’re starting to see sports teams do this as well. Where I think this gets really interesting is tokens have always been a really good form of capital formation. So imagine you’re filming, you know, a new non-scripted, new non-scripted documentary.
You know, you got about, call it $2 million of a budget. What are your options really finance it. Number one is you can go to your friends and family. Nobody really wants to do that. Number two is you can go to VCs. Definitely nobody wants to do that. Number three is you can go to JP Morgan and get like a 25% [00:15:00] credit facility.
You do it if you have to, but that’s 500 K of interest a year or now in the new world is tokenizing ip. You say, Hey folks, you know we’re gonna give away 5% of our royalties to everybody, whoever does this, or if you fund finance with capital, we’re gonna give you a hundred percent yield, which means you double your money back where you’d still need.
That is super exciting where anything you do can pretty much be done to help you raise the money and it’s usually way cheaper. Like we have a team called Rewarded TV that did this with one of their projects, right? You know, it was either 20% facility or they gave an 8% yield to every, that’s a 12% margin differential.
That’s like the difference between a big actor and a medium actor for some, for a product of that size. And so I think that’s what we get really excited about are, you know, these, using blockchain for new primitives in age old industries and disrupting them in the right way overall.
Patrick: Yeah, this is, this is so fascinating.
Like my brain is already running. ’cause we have so many clients that are raising money, looking at taking private equity, you know, and I’m just thinking about this new [00:16:00] opportunity that you have to monetize and it’s incredible.
Nirav: By the, just really quickly, sorry to interrupt you, Patrick, but like, we’re seeing this not just down on V IP side, we’re just even like examples as well.
I guess IP is real world. It’s to phrase it, but like for example, we have a team called Bruno, which owns the Untold Music Festival in Romania. It gets about like 400 K attendees a year. Huge. Absolutely massive. You know, they’re sort of thinking, uh, capital information is key. It’s like, hey. How do we handle this whole festival being done in a one place stop such that, you know, people don’t need to get those stupid wristbands or like top things up over mm-hmm.
Whatnot. So, you know, their app will all be powered by Camp USDC payments, you know, that means includes anything, tickets that includes like hot dogs or whatever food you want. That also includes drinks and whatnot, you know, so it’s all in one, and again, it’s all been via wallet, so you can track it as opposed to having to flip that with the email, Google or whoever controls the sign on flow overall.
Then in addition, you know, paying advances to some of those artists gets pretty expensive over time. So you’re basically using TVL as a working capital facility right there in order to facilitate some of those transactions.[00:17:00]
Patrick: You know, one of the big themes we’re hitting on in today’s conversation is ownership. Making sure you’re not just creating value but actually keeping it. And that doesn’t just apply to your content or your intellectual property. It’s the same with your money. That’s exactly why we created vital strategies.com/tax to where entrepreneurs like you can start building a strategy to minimize taxes, protect your wealth, and keep more of what you’ve worked so hard to create.
Because at the end of the day, it’s not just about how much you earn, it’s about how much you keep and how you leverage it to grow. So if you’re ready to take control of your financial future, the same way we’re talking about taking control of your IP, head over to vital strategies.com/tax and get started today.
So you talked about some of the. Google wallet and that they’re taking their piece of the pie. How does camp work? How does camp make money? How does the camp business [00:18:00] model like function? So it can be this platform to do all these incredible things?
Nirav: Yeah, really good question. It’s a couple of things.
Number one is, you know, like any big database, we believe that our value comes from the teams that build on top of us, not the underlying database itself. I would say that’s actually more true about any infrastructure platforms. That’s why we spend so much time with our app layer, you know, working with teams.
This isn’t like one of those, you know, camp isn’t one of those ecosystems where it’s gonna say, we have 18,000 apps building on top of us. I don’t even think we have 18,000 apps in crypto. But what we do have is a dedicated set of apps that we think is really exciting, and what we really care about is native apps, which means teams that are building with camp or camp and on camp exclusively, or pretty much only longer term.
We believe in chain abstractions. Like I don’t think the whole like exclusive thing really means anything, but you know. We’re sort of one of their first homes overall. And on that subject, we have about like 75 native teams that we really spend time with, you know, on narrative building, capital formation, capital, raising from the venture side of things, institutional side of things, marketing, as well as just sort of like product feedback and product design that I think is super used.
You know, in [00:19:00] addition, we’re also intubating quite a few projects ourselves that could be creative revenue. You know, for example, we’re seeing a lot of these AI modeling companies try and find new and com compliant ways to train data, especially as you mentioned in the lawsuits world that all those other guys have.
What do you think could be solved there and an Airbnb for decentralized training and then camp recurring fees on top of that as well. But you know, camp seeks to be completely incentive aligned. You know, we want the users to make money, we want the protocols to make money, and then, you know, we are happy to be a small portion of that that participates in something much bigger.
Patrick: Yeah, yeah. This is fantastic. And I also think about the problems with. We’ll call ’em Borders, right? And sort of protecting my data globally. And I think camp does a great job of solving that problem as well. So I dunno if that’s anything you want to touch on, but it’s pretty clear that everything taking place on, you know, Web3 is sort of decentralized, doesn’t have the issues with needing to register with a government.
Nirav: I mean, you’re exactly right, right? Like, uh, I mean even look at like traditional cases like Facebook, Cambridge, Analytica, like when one party controls [00:20:00] everything, lose hacked, you get kinda screwed. So we think that blockchain represents the best way to actually do a lot of these things. Again, it’s important to segment out blockchain versus crypto because one of them is a technology and there’s an application of the technology and clearly the technology has a lot of merits soon as we can all sort of see.
Patrick: Yeah, absolutely. And then, you know, I’m just looking at the traction that you’re getting and I think this is exciting. You know, you’re talking about SpongeBob and some of those other partnerships and I’m just. I’m looking at the entrepreneurs that we’re working with and that we’re talking to and how do I, what is the best content to be putting on, like I’m, here’s one thing I’m thinking about and you can correct me here.
So like we’re developing a course that helps entrepreneurs with everything from cash flow planning to tax strategy, to, I’ll say protection around legal structures and all those other things. Like I’m thinking about this and I’m going, man, this could be a fascinating like case study where. You know, people can buy the course.
They can also market it and take a [00:21:00] piece of that revenue using this. Am I totally out in left field or is that, could that be an opportunity to leverage our IP through, through camp?
Nirav: No, 100%. I mean, look, there’s a, there’s like a misconception that IP is like something on the creative entertainment side that’s so false, right?
Like developing your own total to that key, right? Like if you develop an agents that other people are using, develop an agents that other people are using. That’s your own IP as well. So that’s like a huge misconception. I think there’s two things that are really interesting to you there that you mentioned.
Number one is, yeah, that’s super cool. What we can also do is, you know, if we have enough content of you, we can basically train a teaching module. You know, let’s say I love Patrick’s voice. I love the way he does all these podcasts. That’s huge because not only then are you having your model go out and uh, sort of make yourself money, but you know, if other people develop teaching courses using it, you make money on the royalty side as well.
And I think the second thing that really hits on that is. You know, the AI component is huge because it’s not just creating, like, how do I phrase this? You’re basically making something have like a hundred x more possible opportunities, right? [00:22:00] Again, if you use your course on, uh, financial and planning and cash flow analysis and whatnot.
Somebody could basically train an agent to say how to do podcasting by Patrick. And instead of like me having to be on live with you, we can do this all via our own user, like agent to agent interaction, but all train off each of our individual personalities. And the cool part about that is, you know, we’re saving so much time and becoming more efficient with that and all of those, like a near of agent or a Patrick agent could be registered on campus as well.
Patrick: Yeah, no, that’s so fascinating ’cause a, about a year ago I did a completely AI generated episode, uh, on ago. And it was interesting. You know, I uploaded my voice to. Some software that, you know, then I took the transcript, that chat created, that utilized all of my previous transcripts to create a topic. It, it was talking about ai and I wanna redo it because I think it’s gotten so much better.
You know, just the things that you’re talking about. And I think we’ll probably get to the point where, you know, we could have this podcast episode without actually [00:23:00] either of us showing up. We can just send our agents to, to get the conversation done. It’ll be great. So,
Nirav: yeah, something that’s super interesting to dissect there is the future of the world is agent to agent interactions.
And in order for that to exist, you need user specific agents as well as task specific agents, if that makes sense. Mm-hmm. And the only way to actually create this is by training it on user on and verify. There’s literally no other way. Right? Like otherwise, you’re basically just scraping the Internet’s knowledge, which is cool, but it’s more inference than anything else when the actual model is prompted over a.
Patrick: Mm-hmm. Yeah. And. I wanna be careful and say, you know, it’s hard to get new thinking when that happens and, you know, see some of the hallucinations that, you know, chat comes up with. And it’s like, well that’s, that’s fascinating. But I think the human minds, you know, that can train these things is where it’s at.
Like you said, that’s, that’s
Nirav: great. Yeah. I mean, I think that’s exactly right. Like anytime they’re forcing users to change their habits, it’s ridiculously difficult to get adoption. Which is why if you look at it, we still don’t have adoption on blockchain today. Like let’s be honest, stable coins are [00:24:00] like a better way to do international payments.
Mm-hmm. The only annoying part is sort of like the on ramp and reoffering. It gets kind of expensive, but you know, if you’re able to solve that, more people would use stable coins than anything else. The problem is you haven’t solved that yet, and so once UX really get solved, let’s when we’ll start to see massive adoption and fully agree with you on that.
Patrick: Yeah. Yeah. So. Do you wanna walk through like what you see? We’ve talked about some interesting use cases, but I’m looking at, if you’re thinking of camp going, okay, what is the thing I’m most excited to see out there showing up on our network or that that’s really going to be exciting to the general public to, to utilize and, and leverage?
What is that project?
Nirav: Yeah. I mean, look, I think we have a whole host, but like, I’ll give you a couple that I’ve already mentioned just to not like. Try and chilly on every project or ecosystem, but you know, we have something like a rewarded tv, which is a watcher. The reason why I like it is I spend a ton of time on my like streaming platform, not knowing what I wanna watch [00:25:00] what instead, like Netflix has done a really good job of building like based on for you, but like, let’s be honest, a lot of that is like a little bit paid and like whatnot based on whoever’s doing it.
Amazon’s done a really good job of this, not on Prime, but on like shopping, where it’s like, because you bought this, you also like this. And I’m like, ah, that’s really good. I think the interesting thing is with something like a rewarded, they already have a library of huge ip, like massive IP overall because a lot of their exists over there today.
And so something that’s interesting is number one, if I know what I want, then I can also, or sorry, if they know what I want, they can also suggest that’s the worst thing. The second thing is building a sustainable business. You know, now that they have all this content because they’re producing their own stuff as well.
We can actually, they can actually go sell it to whether it’s like the voice data companies, the video generation companies, the image gener action company that creates a really cool flywheel of content equals dollars, equals more content deployed or produced equals more dollars and a really sexy flywheel.
Then the third thing is the reason why they wanna use watching [00:26:00] is for the token, uh, like for capital formation, as I mentioned earlier. Tokens work. You have a token in every project and you get yield on it, which is contractual because what they do is they basically will produce it and then go sell it to somebody like an Amazon, apple, NBC, or one of the big guys, and that’s guaranteed yield.
So you’re effectively basically just using the capital formation in the and loop of like an event, which is obviously a way more efficient use of capital. Candidly, much more exciting for the community. ’cause you obviously not have like a base of users that’s automatically gonna be interested in what you make because they mistake it overall.
So I think those are the, that’s what I mentioned earlier where it’s, you know, these primitives for age old industries
Patrick: are what I get really excited by. Yeah, this is fantastic. So I’m thinking about your website, camp network.xyz and if somebody goes there and they have ip, can you walk us through like, how hard is it for me to get my, my.
And let’s pretend I know nothing about Web3. Like I am like completely novice, but I’m a, I’m an incredible creator. Is that [00:27:00] something I can just go to the website and I can give my it ip uh, sort of published so we can verify my ownership?
Nirav: Yeah, exactly. I mean,
Patrick: the
Nirav: benefit
Patrick: of blockchain is the
Nirav: attestation, like the verification component.
And so, you know, when we drop this podcast, we’d love to sort of share some of the case studies that we’ve done on this. We did something with psycho code. Sahara AI and sort of this IP creation ran a remixing campaign around it where people could create it in the style of, you know, whether it’s like a dark and stormy united.
We do that with one of our native IP businesses called Note as well. So we not only have a lot of these businesses to attract ip, we have a lot of these IP remixing businesses as well, which we think is gonna be really interesting ’cause for a lot of new content we’ll come from over the next decade and obviously every decade successfully thereafter.
So what we’ll do is once we see some of the, well, when we drop this podcast, it’d be great to put in some of the links. And sort of saying like, Hey, get started today. And obviously, you know, we’re gonna be rewarding folks for that. We wanna see more stuff done on chain in the first place and still be around this because again, it’s a new perimeter that we really haven’t explored before or seen other folks chime for.
Patrick: Yeah. Fantastic. So we [00:28:00] will have, in the show notes, we’ll have those case studies and uh, links to all of the awesome camp resources that you feel like that people need to have to understand how they can get their, uh, work out there and get it going. So the goal, that’s always gonna be the goal. This is fantastic.
So I think one of the things I want to talk about next is, first, yes, go to Camp Network, xyz, check it out. But if we have a call to action, what should people be doing next with their information? What, what would you, where would you like people to go next?
Nirav: Yeah, I mean, look, oh man, this is such a good question.
I think one of the biggest things, and we’re we’re guilty of this as well, I wanna make this clear, is we need to a better job of educating users on what to do once you’re a part of the, mm-hmm. Sure if you go to Camp Network, Twitter, you’re like, oh, this is cool. Maybe you buy a couple tokens on when the exchanges were listed on, and you know, maybe you’re like, okay, I’ll hold it and see if it fails, or I’ll hold it and see if I can a hundred x and then take it from there.
One of the things that I, we should definitely do a better job of, and we’re trying to do this, is almost [00:29:00] having like a portal. Like, here’s all the things you can do on top of us, and we currently have one that’s live today. If you’re a developer, you know, we have dev developer documentation around like, Hey, this is what you have to do to get started.
Here are your C endpoints and whatnot as well. Really giving people the, an insight into why our ecosystem is so interesting beyond just, you know, the normal like LPs or, you know, beyond, beyond the normal, like yield protocols or earning protocols or linear protocols overall. And that’s what I think we’re most excited about.
Patrick: Mm-hmm. I love it. All right. This is fantastic. So I, I think about what happens, you know, the stakes that are out there, you know, if we don’t act on this, if we don’t go to. Camp and register our content creators, uh, they lose control. Their content gets used without attribution or compensation. That’s super frustrating.
Or, you know, there’s some derivative or AI systems like exploit those existing works and just widen the gap between the creators and the profit that’s out there. And it’s fragmented and opaque. You know, there’s [00:30:00] legal, ethical gray zones, lawsuits, all that crap. And I think, you know, we can avoid so much of this if we.
We get our content out there. And then like you said, I love the band. Actors are always gonna steal the stuff, right? Yeah. But I, most people, most people run away. Like that’s why most people are on Spotify, right? Like they, they’re happy to pay for it and get access to the content and enjoy it in a legal fashion.
And so I love that you’re doing that. And I think about what’s possible if people do. Register their data, right? Like they get to retain their ownership, they get fair compensation, they get to participate really in the AI revolution instead of being marginalized. It’s a transparent, equitable system of I IP attribution and monetization, which I think is awesome.
And then, you know, there’s new business model like you’ve talked about that is out there that can do everything from, you know, these, I think about AI agents and content remixing. This is. I think this is such new territory. It’s wild, [00:31:00] wild West in a fantastic way. There’s just so much opportunity for the creative to go out there and find new ways to mix and match content, to really bring value to the marketplace.
And I think that idea of bringing value to the marketplace underlies everything camp’s trying to do, right? Like if we’re really valuable to the marketplace, people will use it. And this will be great for everybody. So. I think this is, uh, yeah, I mean this is fantastic. I love what you’re doing.
Nirav: Thank you, man.
And look, you hit it on the head like let’s look at the decision tree of like what happens, right? Like, do you register your IP on chain? Let’s just say yes. Cool. Somebody uses it without your consent. You sort of say, Hey, proof that I created this easy settle pretty, I. If you don’t, then you’re gonna have to go through a massive legal battle in which, you know, you’re leaving things up to a judge, jury, jury with a pretty big fear of doubt against, you know, some of the biggest companies in the world who will be using this.
And you know, they’re gonna bury you in so much paperwork that at some point you’re gonna go out of visit, you’re literally gonna go [00:32:00] broke, trying to fight these types of things. And so, you know, again, like we are pretty bullish on this category of like ai, native IP creation that includes anything from, like, it follow a trend.
Usually it starts with text and images. Music, then video, and then games we’re sort of in the images is proven out. Era, Texas, proven out era. I wouldn’t say music’s proven out yet. I think we’re in the early innings of that, but it’s started to do a good job. Mm-hmm. And you know, once videos comes, this thing blows completely open because that’s when people spend a ton of time doing all those types of things.
And so it’s more like that’s why right now is sort of what I call the critical time in order to make sure that you can prove this because that’s how you actually make money long term as well.
Patrick: Yeah. This is so cool. And you, you hit the nail on the head. Like, right now I have a, a trademark registered and it was registered before this person started using it, but now they’re suing me and I’m like, this is my property and I’m spending 10 grand.
And we’re just like in the. Early stages of this, and I’m like, golly, this is incredible that, you know, I [00:33:00] have my sort of right to it and I’m getting sued for it. And so, I dunno, I love the efficiency that the blockchain creates and I’m looking forward to today when we don’t have these antiquated systems.
Yeah. I, I are out there. I think you’re super right
Nirav: man. I think it’s, uh, I think it’s all about efficiency, as you mentioned and look like. You people probably think like, awe, this only affects like Jay-Z or Drake or whatever. Like, you know, the top 0.0 0, 0 0, 0 0 0 1% of creators on the planet. It affects them because your data’s always being used to make money somewhere or the other.
You know that’s true about Instagram, right? Like if you’re on Instagram, they’re selling your data to, you know, Amazon or whoever to basically push purchases to you. At least I might as well get compensated for that accordingly, as opposed to Instagram keeping all the feeds over own. Yeah.
Patrick: Nir, this is fantastic.
I’ve loved this conversation. Is there anything else? What else should we be talking about? Because what I think we should probably do is like, you know, come back in three, six months and have this [00:34:00] conversation again and just see that the direction and the adoption that’s taking place. ’cause I think this is, again, I think this is where people should be.
You know, when I think about the opportunities that are out there, I think being a creator and putting some content out there. Figuring these things out is a tremendous opportunity for, for the entrepreneur in, in general.
Nirav: Yeah. This has been super exciting. Like it’s clear to me that you, like, it’s super clear and kind of cool honestly to see how much you sort of agree with the thesis.
You know, when we were sort of pitching this six to nine months ago, I’ll be honest, it wasn’t nearly as well received like. In this world of ai, they’re like, oh man, INFR ISS a much bigger deal. You know, Reddit, GPT is a lawsuit to sort of contributed to that stability, AI and uh, Getty Images as well as, you know, mid journey in Hollywood.
Overall, I really do believe that we’re gonna be in a decade long tranche of, you know, legal battles. And so you mentioned sort of three to six months. I think the kind of cool thing about what we’re building is it changes every three months is like an ter in this business overall, right? Like blockchain tends to move faster from a market perspective than anything else.
AI tends to move faster from a tech [00:35:00] perspective. Than anything else because of the fact that it’s making every 10 X engineers. I think what I had, like the really cool thing is week by week we’re seeing new features being shipped and new folk folks using new and innovative ways to actually use those features to create something.
Mm-hmm. And I think what we’d love to see is we’ll continue to post those on, you know, our social channels as well as pr, but you know, seeing growth of those things and being able to sort of come back and sort of chat with you about them and you know, if there’s any new ideas inspired about that. We’re always trying to be at the forefront of those.
Patrick: Fantastic. Alright, NIR, this has been incredible. I do appreciate all of the good work you’re doing and we will definitely have you back on the show here in a few months and just hear about all the cool things that are taking place. At camp.
Nirav: Okay. Thank you so much. Really appreciate your time, Patrick.
This was super fun.
Patrick: Yeah, thank you. Thank you so much for tuning in today’s episode of the Vital Wealth Strategies Podcast. I hope you found as much value in this conversation as I did, and that it sparked some new ideas about how you can protect your work, leverage technology, and build smarter [00:36:00] strategies in your business.
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