108 | Why the Financial Industry Wants You Confused: A Conversation with Mike Milligan

Patrick: [00:00:00] Have you ever wondered what true financial wellness really looks like? Not just having money in the bank, but building a life that creates community with the people you care about, is focused on being healthy in every aspect and having an impact. Welcome back to another episode of the Vital Wealth Strategies Podcast.
I’m your host, Patrick Lonergan, and today I’m joined by someone who’s redefining what it means to live and plan with purpose. My guest is Mike Milligan. He’s a purpose-driven financial advisor, educator, and entrepreneur whose story started in his family small business back in North Carolina. Today. He’s the founder of Ideas by Mike and One Oak Financial.
One of the leading voices in client-centered impact-driven financial planning. Mike Holts both the CFP and accredited investment fiduciary credentials, and he’s helped thousands of clients make sense of their wealth, extend their wellbeing, and live out their goals with clarity and confidence. What I love about Mike’s [00:01:00] approach is how he blends decades of expertise with empathy and a genuine focus on helping people design lives that reflect who they truly are.
He has a gift for turning financial jargon into simple, actionable strategies that anyone can use, whether you’re managing your first big windfall or building generational wealth. And before we dive in, if you’re ready to take control of your tax strategy and start keeping more of what you earn, visit vital strategies.com/tax.
That’s where you can find the tools and insights to start building a plan that fuels both your business and your life. If this podcast serves you, I’d love for you to leave a quick rating or review. It helps more entrepreneurs like you find these conversations and join our growing community of vital thinkers and doers.
Alright, let’s get into it. Here’s my conversation with Mike Milligan. I’m excited about our conversation today. We’ve got Mike Milligan on the show, and we’re really going to get into. Understanding about having a financial plan, uh, that we can all understand that really supports our life. Mike does a great job of, [00:02:00] uh, really making it simple for people to, uh, understand their plan, have an audit of all the things they’re doing, and, uh, make sure that people are on the right track.
So, Mike, thank you so much for, for joining us here today.
Mike: It’s, it’s great to be here. Absolute honor.
Patrick: Yeah. Thank you. So I, I’m. Just thinking about finance in general, and, uh, oftentimes it feels overly complex. I will go to an industry conference and not even understand what people are saying. You know, they’re, they’re full of jargon and they’re, they’re disconnected from, I’ll say the, the, the real lives that people are, are living.
And then it, it can also feel overwhelming. You know, when, when somebody’s talking to me in a certain way, I’m just like, now I’m. Uncertain about what’s going on. I’m frustrated that, uh, my wealth doesn’t reflect the life that I want to live. And, uh, then at the end of the day, I feel like our wealth should create freedom.
It should help us improve our wellness and our impact, not create confusion, stress, or constraint. So [00:03:00] thank you for helping us, uh, guide through these, these challenges here today. Well,
Mike: you know, the industry is a setup, Patrick. I mean, it’s, uh, everything that you mentioned about. Jargon over complication.
It’s, it’s just a setup to make, uh, individual clients, small business owners, retirees feel like they have to have the company do the work for them because otherwise they would be lost without them. And it’s, it is just simply not true. Financial planning can be a very simple, complimentary piece to an overall plan for your life that is well lived.
Mm-hmm.
Patrick: Yeah. I, I, I love this. And, uh, I, I think about some of the authors that I’ve read. I, I like to, to read books and, uh, j Collins does a great job of, uh, a simple path to wealth. And, [00:04:00] uh, I appreciate his approach. Now, I think as, as wealth grows, I think it brings some complexity, even if. Um, you know, you’ve set a bunch of these things up and it can help to have an advisory in your life to like, make sure you’re not, uh, uh, making some mistakes, especially when it comes to like, things like Roth conversions and some of those other pieces.
But I do believe our industry makes it overly complex. Uh, we make it sound like there’s, uh, this is not something the average person should do and they should, you know, lean on an advisor, but I, I. On some hand, there’s some people that probably should have an advisor. Uh, they, they think they’re gonna outperform the market with their stock picks.
And unfortunately, the 300 million people in the United States, um, effectively no one has done that. We might be able to point to Warren Buffett, but even him, it’s like, uh, I would argue he’s more of a business owner. All of the Forbes list is, is a business owner or a real estate, uh, magnet. So it’s like.
There, there is. Who, by
Mike: the way, everybody that’s on that list, that is a magnet, they found inefficiency. Mm-hmm. [00:05:00] And were, it was able to turn massive profits because of finding the inefficiency.
Patrick: Yeah. Yep. Absolutely. And, and we own a fair amount of real estate and we’re always looking for the opportunity.
You know, it, the value is based on the cash flow. We find inefficiencies in the cash flow. We figure out how to force more cash to the bottom line and the number starts compounding. So, uh, right. Yeah. This is, uh, this is great. So, Mike, can you tell us a little bit about your, your background and how you got into finance and sort of putting the people first?
So,
Mike: uh, so mean, I, I, I did college like most people did with, uh, with this understanding that I wanted to. Help people with money. I like what it looked like and that really went back to my upbringing. When I was, uh, out of, out of necessity, my grandmother had to become an entrepreneur. See, her husband who owned a construction company, got diagnosed with [00:06:00] cancer, he sued, passed away, and the stay at home mom had to now become an entrepreneur.
What she sold was something totally unique. She sold collared sandwiches, just fried cornbread with mm-hmm. Collard greens in the middle. And she sold them around, uh, construction sites, at convenience stores, and eventually at, uh, at our local, uh, annual fair, what, you know, a three day event where people would come.
But, uh, what I really realized in looking back on her entrepreneurial spirit, the spirit, is that she sold love. It just was wrapped in, uh, in a couple pieces of cornbread with collards. And so, uh, I, uh, in her, in my journey of helping her, because I was 11 years old when that started, I got to go with her to make sales calls.
I got to go with her to pay bills because when she was doing this, you know, you would still take money orders or cash into the local utility company. [00:07:00] Yeah. So I got to see like how it operated. One of the things that I noticed. Over and over again with her is, uh, is just the relationship aspect of building a business.
Well, one of those relationships happened when we walked into a bank. She was not well educated in the bank that she walked into. Had a guy wearing a suit, a tie in. The only other person I knew at that time that wore suit and ties were preacher men. And I did not wanna be a preacher. It. So I was like, I, I want, I wanna dress like that guy.
And so I found the path to go work at a bank, and that was to go to college, get a degree, and then I got a job at a bank, uh, in their management development program. And for 10 years I walked the halls conference rooms and trading floors of some of the biggest institutions in America. And that’s how I learned that, uh, the system is rigged.[00:08:00]
Against individuals. Yeah. It’s, it’s there. These companies are, are earning record profits. You know, look at, look at the third quarter profit numbers that are coming out for big companies, Goldman Sachs, JP Morgan, Citigroup. Right? And they’re, they’re, they’re record. Well, how are they making record profits?
They’re making ’em off the backs of individual businesses and companies through trading and net interest margin. They don’t, uh, they don’t sit around their conference rooms talking about how to make a client’s life easier. They, they sit around conference rooms saying, how can we profit off doing business?
It’s such an interesting concept because many of the places that we trust with our money, our breaching the trust because they’re taking a greater share of the profit than what you’re taking.
Patrick: Yeah. I, I appreciate that. And, and I think one thing that’s really interesting, um, when we start looking at people’s [00:09:00] financial incentives and we start looking at the data around the decision making, all we have to know is their financial incentives.
And it will, it will start to skew the advice they give. Right? And so when I think about, oh, I’m. I’m taking advice from somebody that, uh, now has financial incentives. The, the information they’re giving me, even though they might seem like my friend, uh, they might, uh, be, you know, talking about and showing me how all of the decisions that I’m about to make are, are gonna be in my best interest.
Uh, I think. Uh, it’s, it’s not always the case. And so I appreciate you, you bringing this to the light. ’cause I don’t think there’s a lot of people in our industry shining the light on this. Um,
Mike: well, they don’t, well, the industry doesn’t want to talk about it ’cause the industry is a profit first industry.
It’s profit first. I have a motto or a mentality where it’s profit with purpose. Mm-hmm. And like if, uh, if individuals, if entrepreneurs will take a profit with purpose mentality, the [00:10:00] impact multiplies the, uh, the happiness is exponentially bigger. Mm-hmm. Then the companies you work with, you use them for what they’re meant for.
Right. You use a bank for checking, use an insurance company to play defense. Right. Use, uh, use an investment company to multiply your money. Yeah. Right. By, by owning assets. You don’t, uh, and you don’t blindly or illiterately go into a, a, a relationship without knowing what, uh, what the, what the pros and cons are.
Yeah. Uh, Patrick, people would never, people would never go into a surgery, especially in elective surgery without knowing the pros and cons of that surgery. Right. Uh, but they, but they do that every day with their
Patrick: money. Yeah. I love this. So if it’s okay, can we, can you start to unpack what it, you have a book out, uh, the one of a kind financial plan.
Can you, can you talk a [00:11:00] little bit about what is that, what, what is, what is this and how is it different than what I’m gonna get if I, if I walk into my local investment advisor’s office?
Mike: Well, I have, I have two core beliefs in my life. Uh, one is to never miss a moment. And number two, that everybody is one of a kind.
Uh, and people that don’t realize their uniqueness and try to do what everybody else tries to do, if they try to follow the herd, they’re literally robbing this earth. They’re robbing their community of the skills that they could bring to the table. Uh, and so I, I, I promote, uh, living a one of a kind life building a vision.
When I, when I wrote the book, it’s from, uh, over 30 years of academic, uh, you know, being in academic, but being front and center with clients. Mm-hmm. You know, sitting across the kitchen table, looking at ’em in the conference room, hearing the struggles. Well, I, I basically boil down [00:12:00] that a financial plan has five key pillars.
You know, the first one is tax planning, because that’s the biggest expense you’ll ever have in your life. And there’s, there’s hands down, nothing more expensive in life than, than taxes. Yeah. The second one is, uh, is retirement income. See people, my, in my, in my research and in working with over thou, with working with thousands of clients.
People have, have gotten the, the retirement world, or, or they, they, they’ve got the reti, the use of retirement world wrong. Mm-hmm. You know, uh, 4 0 1 Ks for instance, were created to be a supplemental piece to pensions and social security. Yet the, yet employers have made that the primary source mm-hmm. Of generating retirement income.
And it puts all the risk, [00:13:00] like the investment risk, the uh, the filling the retirement income risk back on the employee, the person that’s putting money aside, and they don’t really have time to understand what a proper asset allocation is. Mm-hmm. What a proper investment structure is, how you actually turn income.
And what we find is that when people get to retirement. They enter retirement with high levels of fear and anxiety. Mm-hmm. And our book tries to alleviate those by actually walking you through how to create retirement e income. Then we go to, uh, the third pillar is investments. Investments are overly over complicated, intentionally.
Mm-hmm. They’re not, they’re not meant to be simple. If people don’t understand them, they naturally gravitate to too conservative of an investment. And when they do that, they also don’t get the returns they need to [00:14:00] retire. So the system investment system is kind of rigged. So we like to educate vestments.
Mm-hmm. And then the last two components of the play, the last two pillars are long-term care and healthcare. Mm-hmm. Like how do, how does the current version of yourself take it? Take. Take care of the future version of yourself. You notice that it say long-term care insurance. Yeah, I think, I think insurance has oversold.
Mm-hmm. And I, I, I think through proper planning you can solve for healthcare and long-term care needs. Uh, but the people who defer making those decisions, that’s when they have to rely on insurance more and more. Yeah. And then the last, the last component of the one of a kind financial plan is legacy.
Yes, it is meaning that you have a will and a trust, but a legacy is more about experiences, family heritage. It’s about family secrets. Yeah. It’s about making sure the next generation [00:15:00] has the wisdom that you’ve accumulated. That when you pass away, they really know you love them. And so we walk through those five pillars of those.
But then what we also do in the book, the what of a kind financial plan is expose what a real fiduciary is. Mm-hmm. And we could, you and I could talk about that for hours. Yeah. But we talk about what a real fiduciary is. And then we give action steps for how to build vision for retirement, and then how to build your plan.
Uh, our, our book is a, is a do it yourself guide. Mm-hmm. That then you pick and choose the investors where, I mean, they, uh, you, you pick and choose the advisors mm-hmm. That you need to implement, implement those instead of blindly following an advisor. Uh, with whatever one size fits all plea they have.
Patrick: Yeah. I, I, Mike, this is great. So I feel like you’re preaching to the choir here. Um, when [00:16:00] you talk about, you know, starting with tax and it being the most expensive thing, uh, we, we couldn’t agree more. Uh, it’s the number one reason clients come to us. They’re like, Hey, solve the tax bill. And, uh, on average we save our clients $280,000 of income tax on.
Annual basis. So it’s like, uh, yes, moving that needle makes an enormous difference. I’ve, uh, seen this illustration and we’ve, we’ve used it in the past about, uh, a penny doubling every day and how many dollars that’s worth at the end of 30 days. And it’s a tremendous amount. I think it’s like $12 million or something like that.
Yep. Um, but once you factor in tax, if you just take out 37% tax on all of that doubling, you know, the impact you have. Again, I don’t remember the number, but it’s a fraction of the amount of money. So the, the more tax we can get out of the equation and let our, our dollars work, uh, without that friction, the, the better.
Uh, and then to your, your point on the fiduciary side, you know, I, I think our industry has problems in general. Uh, I [00:17:00] think the commission model, you know, has its, uh, its issues. It’s like, well, is this best for me or is this best for the advisor? You know, it’s hard to tell, uh, because again. You start looking at financial incentives and there’s, there’s an issue.
Uh, and then we, we look at, uh, the fiduciary standard, uh, where, you know, I am paying a fee to get this service. Well, the, again, when the financial incentives don’t line up with the advice, um, you know, oftentimes if, if my goal is to pay down my debt, right, my, now I might understand that. Financially, it could make sense to leave that debt in place and go invest my dollars over here.
But there’s also a peace of mind factor. There’s also, you know, my beliefs could say, the scriptures tell us that, you know, we’re slave to the lender and I don’t wanna be slave to anybody, so I’m gonna get rid of that debt. And, uh, the financial advisor may go, Hey, well, you know, here’s all the reasons why that’s a bad idea, uh, because you’re gonna have to pull money out of this count that I’m charging you [00:18:00] on, uh, to.
Um, you know, to do that thing. And I don’t want my income to go down, so I’m gonna, I’m gonna advise you to keep those dollars in. And then the last problem I have with that structure in general is I am paying the advisor based on the value I’m bringing to the equation versus the value that they’re bringing to the equation.
And it’s like, well, uh, this is a, an interesting approach. So, um. You know, it, it would be odd if, you know, when I brought my car in for an oil change, they said, oh wow, this is a, you know, this is a nice car, a hundred thousand dollars vehicle. Like, we’re gonna charge you, not based on the complexity of that oil change, but, uh, based on the value of your car.
It’d be like, wait time out a minute. What, what are we doing here? So, uh, again, we could probably run down that rabbit trail for a while, but, uh, I love the direction that you’re heading with, uh, your planning. So, if you don’t mind, can we, well, I’ll tell
Mike: you, well, if I, if I can elaborate on that just a minute, Patrick, it’s like this conversation needs to be had more mm-hmm.
Because [00:19:00] change in the industry is coming. Mm-hmm. I mean, it’s, uh, because as people have access to more information, they will make changes. My fear is that. It’s going to go, it’s going to go too far too fast where people start relying on ai Yep. To get financial advice. I was just actually reading an article in Rethink, uh, 65 that said, according to like Credit Karma, uh, 82% of people under the age of 40 used AI for a financial question in the last six months.
And this, and, uh, and the, and the survey surveyed over 10,000 people. Well, 75% of people acted on that. So here’s the, here we are again, right where we talk about the current system being rigged for the profits, right? Because everybody gets the same solution over and over again. [00:20:00] And if you go to ai, guess what you’re gonna get?
You’re gonna get the same solution. Over and over again. So like the, the, the difference between working with like corporate American working with AI is human interaction. Mm-hmm. Because AI is, if you don’t have discernment, right. And that’s a word Yeah. We could also talk about for a long time. But if you don’t have discernment all you, and you’re using AI or you’re working with, you know, a blind advisor, all you have is a Google search.
Yeah. Right. Yeah. It is working with licensed professional people who, like you said, bring value to the table. Greater really than what you’ve ever got before. Yeah. To be able to, to grow well that otherwise, uh, is going some
Patrick: other place. Yeah. Yeah. And, and I do wanna make a point, I am not a pro opposed to [00:21:00] profit.
Like, I, I don’t, I don’t think that’s a problem. And, and like you said, like let’s just make sure that we’re like, uh. Let’s just make sure our values are aligned and that our incentives are aligned. Like, I think that’s where, uh, a lot of the, the issue comes. So
Mike: that’s why, that’s why we talk about profit with purpose.
Mm-hmm. As opposed to Profit First. Because listen, we have to have profit, right. In order to be able to, to have the lifestyle my wife and I and our kids want to have, we have to have profit. Yep. Right. Um. If we are, like, if your firm on average ranks $280,000 of value mm-hmm. Right. From tax planning and somebody expects to get that for free.
They are, they are. That, that’s insanity. Yeah. That’s absolutely insanity. Yeah. You know, you, uh, uh, go out and pay that $280,000. Mm-hmm. Right. Don’t pay to have it, Doug.
Patrick: Right, right. Yeah. Or, or try to do it like most of our clients. There, there’s some [00:22:00] aspects where you, you need the professionals to help execute, you know, uh, that, that, you know, are, are setting up the pieces.
Maybe not, maybe you can figure it out all on your own, but the time and energy it’s going to take you to figure it out. You’re better off, especially when you’re running this multimillion dollar business to just focus your efforts there, uh, versus right. Uh, get yourself, you know, bogged down in becoming a, a legal expert or a tax, you know, attorney on.
On some niche strategy that you think may or may not make sense. Uh, so yeah, this is, this is wonderful. I think you’re right. We could be talking about this, this all day long.
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So I, I really like the, uh. That you’re bringing values to the discussion, right? Like you’re, you’re understanding the values that the, the client has. So, uh, and that’s, I think, done through, you know, vision and, and just starting to, uh, really build out those pieces. So I have a plan that’s customized for me versus, um, you know, getting the, the cookie cutter.
So I want to touch on that. I also wanna go back to your point on the AI thing and, and the value of having somebody in our lives that can help us. I can go to AI and I can have it, and I’m gonna use a, a health fitness example, right? Uh, I can go find [00:24:00] the right exercise plan, the right nutrition plan, but at the end of the day, I need somebody that, for most of America to walk alongside me in that, right?
Uh, I, I need somebody that can help me execute on that because I’m gonna get distracted by this thing or that thing, or not put the structures in place that are gonna help me. You know, be well from a fitness point of view. And so I think the same thing is, is really true on our financial lives as well.
So, uh, I just threw a couple things out there. I don’t know if you wanna grab either one of those and, and run with it, but, uh, yeah.
Mike: Well, I mean, like, I, um, one of the problems, right, whether it is our, our health, right? I mean, there’s, there’s three things that I think people have that they should. Apply individually, not apply like a general based template to, or AI to.
Right. Is I think like the community, the pla, the times you, the places you want to spend your life, the [00:25:00] people you wanna live with, I think that is so unique in, in Say No along the way is so important. Mm-hmm. Right. Uh uh, everything you say no to creates an opportunity for Yes. Like. I’ll tell you like when we, when we meet with clients, we have the ability to say no, that we’re not gonna work with that client.
Just like they have the ability to say no, that they don’t want our plan. Yeah. Well, in life you could say no in a community, which would open you up to other opportunities. So, so help, right? Health is a thing that’s, uh, you either have it or you don’t. Mm-hmm. Those that don’t have it, their only wish in life is that they had their health.
Yep. Yep. And so you can, you can, uh, you could, you can waste the opportunities mm-hmm. When you have great health or you could seize the opportunities. And the third thing I think that you can’t really go to AI or fold in every day is what impact you’re gonna have in your life. Mm-hmm. And so, [00:26:00] like, if you like the impact, if you don’t have a clear vision and the impact for where you want to go.
You can’t really go there. We actually, with that community health and impact, we call that Q, not like the far East Q. Yeah. We call that like retirement Q or financial Q, yeah. You could kind of lease out or ask people to, to give you advice or uh, strategies around other things. But the vision for your life can only come from you.
Mm-hmm. And if you create a vision around community health and impact, uh. What you could do with your life is like, uh, is is
Patrick: unlimited.
Mike: Yeah.
Patrick: Yeah. I, I love this. And Mike, you’re, you’re talking about so many of the things that we, we think are important. We, we have this acronym called reach. Okay. The R’S for relationships, ease for experiences, as for advancement or growth.
And I’m, I’m looking forward to getting into that. Um, C’S for contributions, scriptures tell [00:27:00] us it’s better to give than receive. And then h is our health. We think there’s three components to that. It’s our physical health, our emotional health, and our spiritual health. And so spiritual. Um, I I love what you’re, you’re, I feel like you’re touching on all of these things and there’s, I think the truth is, good planning comes from a solid foundation in things that truly matter.
And love that you’re, you’re, you’re building all of this. So can we talk a little bit about, uh, we’ll call it financial fluency or learning the rules of the game? Because I, I think that’s a, a key part, and you touched on. Um, let’s, let’s bring the knowledge to the people and, uh, help them in this process.
So how important is it to, to, to bring clients along in the, the process?
Mike: Well, uh, you have to meet people where they are. Mm-hmm. And everybody brings a different level of, uh, of attached financial fluency where they’ve heard of, they may have heard. Three minutes [00:28:00] of this podcast, right? Or they may have heard two minutes of a guy on a radio show, or they may have watched Susie Orman for four minutes, or, you know, the guy at the water cooler at the office said, you know, invested Bitcoin or, and they’re just bringing all these kind of things that to attach to them, and they’re, they’re bringing snippets or soundbites into, they’re trying to bring soundbites into their.
Into their financial planning process. Uh, I believe in financial literacy so much is not only am I the founder of One Oak Financial and, uh, have written the book, the one of a Kind financial plan. We have our, we have a podcast, I guess by Michael. I also am a, I’m a lecturer. I teach at Old Dominion University and, and one of the courses I teach is a non-credit co course called Personal Financial Planning.
It’s a six week course that walks through the philosophy of money, [00:29:00] cash management, debt management, budgeting, the defensive strategies you’ve gotta have in your life. You know, the requirements like homeowners insurance and auto insurance and health insurance. Yeah. And why you have those, and then the insurances you should avoid.
We, I teach that also. Then we talk about investments like we go through. How investments should align with timeframe and risk, and then ultimately your goals. Mm-hmm. And then we walk through like healthcare, long-term care planning, disability income planning. Yeah. And then we walk through building a will of trust.
I think like I so much, right. That I teach a, I teach a six weeks, nine hour course, right. That, uh, that is perpetually running, that has hundreds of students in it. Yeah. And I, I don’t, I don’t do that, by the way, to, I’m not doing that to build one Oak Financial. I’m not doing, I’m literally doing that because [00:30:00] if you’re going to negotiate with companies Right, for a mortgage mm-hmm.
If you’re gonna negotiate for, uh, to purchase a car or insurance or investments. You have to be equipped. Mm-hmm. Right. A, a football player that walks onto onto a football field and nothing but is cleats is ill-equipped to play football. Yep. Absolutely. A person that walks into a meeting with a financial advisor and they, they’re not equipped with basic definitions of terms, they’re gonna be talked at.
And they’re gonna blindly sign because of something, some other reason that makes no
Patrick: financial sense. Right. And, and I think you’re, you’re touching on a critical thing. The course you’re teaching to these college kids is probably the first financial education they’ve gotten in their entire lives. That the education they’ve gotten up to this point is probably watching their parents, who most likely [00:31:00] have some terrible habits.
If we just look at the average American, um. But they haven’t, they haven’t proactively gone out and done anything. They haven’t read any books on personal finance or any of these other things, and so they’re just wandering blindly, uh, out there and in the marketplace, and, uh, uh, it doesn’t turn out well.
So I, I appreciate the fact that you’re, you’re helping people lay that solid foundation of like, Hey, let’s get our, you know, p and c coverages in place, you know, and make sure that we’ve got our homeowners and car insurance, and here’s how to do that in a way that, that makes sense. Have an emergency fund so you don’t take the lowest deductible possible so you can save some money on, you know, your insurance premiums, you know, things like that.
The mortgage interest, you know, behind tax interest is another, you know, compounding factor that, uh, could work for us or against us. If we’re earning it, great. If it’s, we’re paying it, it’s a problem. And, uh, uh, the fact that we can, you’re helping people understand the value of that cost is, is tremendous.
So, uh, this is, this [00:32:00] is so good. I dunno if you have anything to add to sort of the, the state of our nation and how we fail to educate, uh, our society on finance. But, uh, you know, we might need to do another episode on this, but, uh, holy
Mike: cow, when you keep a people uneducated, then their dependency on you.
Gross. Mm-hmm. It’s, and it’s, and that, and you could say that for like, like true, like literal education. You could say it for financial education, you could say it for health, right? Mm-hmm. You know, if you, if, if you create a dependency culture, you know, people are less likely to revolts or try new things or innovate.
And so, yeah, I mean, from a financial standpoint, I do, I, I do believe that, uh. You, you can’t teach you, you can’t effectively teach a teenager about money. Mm-hmm. It, it’s impossible. You could teach them a couple concepts Yeah. But they don’t have experience with it. Right. [00:33:00] You know, education without experience is nothing more than education.
Right. And so, like, I, I think like education should be like, I, I think employers should be. The personal financial planning class I teach is for, it is for college students, but it also is a class that you could pop into. Mm-hmm. As an adult in come in. And I think like we built this course with the idea that in hopefully two to five years, it is like a core competency that an employer gives to their employees.
Mm-hmm. Right. To try to get their financial life. It’s almost like an employee benefit. Yeah. Like I want you to have. Your duck’s in a row financially so that when you come to work, you’re not worried or you’re not out looking for another job. Mm-hmm. You’re not out, you know, you’re not out, you know, talking to your insurance company in the middle of day when you should be, you know, operating the code for our company or completing [00:34:00] payroll or dealing with our Asians.
Right. So, hopefully, you know, hopefully we will get to a, a world where, at least from an education standpoint, with finances that. More universities like Old Dominion are willing to invest in adult education mm-hmm. On how to properly negotiate in this world of, of, uh, overcomplicate,
Patrick: overcomplicated products.
Yeah. Uh, I also feel like you’ve touched on this dependency thing. I mean, we could run down the avenue of healthcare and politics and like. I think there’s so many areas that we we’re sort of blind to. We’ve just kind of put on our blinders and assume this is the way it is and, uh, uh, we don’t slow down and sort of look around us and go, wait a minute, why are I’ve, I’ve been voting for that person for a long period of time and actually my situation’s just gotten worse, you know?
Um, and so, I dunno. Uh, same thing with, with healthcare man, it’s [00:35:00] like, uh, I don’t know if I should trust the system that needs to sell me. Medications and procedures to, uh, to fix my health. Uh, so I don’t know, um, again, whole different tangent, but, uh, I, I love what you’re talking about there ’cause it’s so true.
And if you, you open up your eyes and look around you, I think you start to see those things. Uh,
Mike: we’re also a media world also too, right? And so most people who have their eyes open to this. Especially in the financial world. Financial world or the health world, when you have your eyes open to ’em, it’s because you’re not distracted by everything else out there.
Mm-hmm. Uh, you know, I, and listen, I, I’m a, I’m a historian. I’m an academic who happens to be an entrepreneur, and it’s a, it’s a bad combination. Patrick, that’s a awful con because like I could bring some truth to a situation that most people don’t. But if you look at every great, if you look at every great civilization.
A hundred percent of them have failed eventually. Mm-hmm. [00:36:00] Yep. And at, at the end of the failure, it is the entertainment era. You know, when Rome started to fall, that’s when they started gladiators. Mm-hmm. When Greek, when Greeks, Greece started to fall, that’s when the Olympics started. And if you like, like if you look where we are now, we have more entertainment options than we ever have in this hat in this country.
Right. From, you know, you could stream. It, it, it would be impossible for somebody to get from the beginning to the end of Netflix ever in their life. Right. We have a, we have a joke. We have a, my wife and I have a cousin and uh, he retired recently after being in the military for a lot of years. And you know, he, it would be like, uh, it’d be like seven o’clock in the morning and he’d be up like at five.
’cause he was used to waking up at four or five to get to work. And so I’m like, Hey, hey, hey, hey. How’s your day going? He’s like. I got all the way to the end of Instagram today. Right. And he, it’s, it’s a joke [00:37:00] that he has Right. That he’s bored because he doesn’t have anything to do. But it’s true. Right?
Yeah. Bored people will consume Right. They’ll consume entertainment. Yeah. At the expense of educating themselves and be, and
Patrick: be It’d be independent in their own thought. Yeah. And, and we have to also understand that, that. That media platform is not doing it for free. They, they are, uh, selling my attention to somebody and, uh, and it’s influencing me in probably negative ways.
So, um, I, I love this. Getting back to financial planning. Is there anything else we should be talking about? When I’m thinking about, I’m constructing my financial plan. Uh, what should I be paying attention to to make sure that, uh, that I’m on the right path?
Mike: Well, you know, uh, the media in this world will also distract you in your financial planning process.
I mean, there’s [00:38:00] very real, there’s the, the book that I wrote brings the attention to the things that you should be paying attention to. Like, for instance, taxes. We talk about that. Yep. But, you know, then all of a sudden we will get in this culture of, uh. If 10 people, or if one person walked into 10 financial planners, they’re gonna get 10 different financial plans.
Mm-hmm. And, but the financial plans don’t always highlight how they can help you. They highlight how everybody else can’t help you because you know, you’ll have, you’ll have these blanket statements out there that says something like, I hate annuities. Mm-hmm. I hate life insurance. I hate assets under management.
Yep. I hate fee for service. Right. Yeah. And the, and and, and the reason people say strong things like I hate is because what they’re really saying is, my system is your way. Mm-hmm. I mean, [00:39:00] people, people love that when they pass away, that their families get tax free money. Mm-hmm. That doesn’t exist. People love.
A guaranteed paycheck. People love not paying 1% of your total assets. Right? Instead of you just pay, you know, $2,000 a year no matter how your assets do. Mm-hmm. Advice people love that stuff, but the, but the market will tell you that you hate it because they’re, they’re trying to disillusion you to be what’s there.
The things that really matter in a financial plan is number one, can you understand it? Mm-hmm. Number two, can you execute it? And number three, does it get you where you want to go? Yeah, that’s like the basics of any good financial plan. It, uh, we overly complicated it. Again, the more sophisticated you are [00:40:00] as a, as a person, multiple business holders, eight figure net worth.
Tax bills that are six and seven figures. Yeah. There’s a little more complexity there, but it still comes down to those three steps. Yep. Can you, can you understand it? Can you execute it? That doesn’t get you where you want to go.
Patrick: Yeah. I, I love that. Uh, so good. And, and I also think that, going back to media for just a second, ’cause I think this ties in.
Yeah. I think the, the thinking that the media creates and, and. Around what we need to have from a lifestyle point of view is a problem. I think consumerism is a problem. Uh, now I’m, I’m a person that has, you know, plenty of stuff. Uh, but I’m also looking at this with my eyes wide open going, Hmm, I see what’s happening here.
I see this draw to like, wanna go buy a new, fill in the blank. ’cause I feel like I, I need it. I’m missing out, you know? Uh, keeping up with the Joneses is, is real. And, uh, you know, so I, I think there’s a [00:41:00] level of this. Fomo that screws up our finances and sort of ties us to, uh, not being financially free ties us to a job or a career that we maybe don’t love.
Where, man, if we had, if we had financial margin in our lives, uh, it would be, uh, it would be a lot easier. And I find, and I’m sure you do the same, it’s really hard to plan for somebody that has no financial margin. You know, if you’re, and we’ve seen this, we’ve seen this with people making $2 million a year.
That’s spend 2.1. Between their taxes and everything else. It’s like, I can’t help you. You know, there’s, there’s just not a lot we can do to build wealth, to create financial freedom because you’re not willing to bring our lifestyle down. Uh, ’cause there’s always a, a nicer fill in the blank, bigger, faster, shiny, whatever that, uh, we can go by.
That’s why we see the billionaires, you know, have a 300 foot yacht and then their buddy gets a 320 foot yacht, so they go buy a 350 foot yacht. It’s like, I promise that isn’t going to, um, you know. [00:42:00] Improve your, your satisfaction in life. So, um, I think that’s just a key piece too, to think about. I don’t know if you have any thoughts or comments to add to that.
Mike: Well, like, uh, breaking it down to the basics, right? We, in the, in that personal financial planning class, we talk about in high strokes that you have to pay yourself first. Mm-hmm. Because if you don’t, you know, and if people of faith will say, you, you know, you have to give first. That’s part of paying yourself first, right?
Mm-hmm. Right. Let’s, let’s not be, let’s not be crazy. Right. You know, just because I’m saying pay yourself, that doesn’t mean that you’re not giving, right? Right. Yep. You give first, uh, the, the Bible calls that first fruits. Mm-hmm. Right? You give first fruits, you give both away, but you also to yourself for your future.
There’s, there’s a fixed expense, right. That everybody has of their life. Mm-hmm. There’s. There’s every month it’s gonna be the same cost, and you have to put a percentage toward fixed expenses. If you have a mortgage that’s gonna be pretty high, that’s gonna be 40 to [00:43:00] 50% of your fixed expenses. Then there’s the variable expenses, but yet at the end of it, in these four categories, paid yourself, fixed, variable, there has to be a margin, and it has to be, for most people, it has to be 10 to 15%, because if you don’t have the margin.
You, you, uh, most people are tend to overspend anyway. Mm-hmm. And if you leave margin, you leave some bluff to saying something. But most people need a 10 to 15% margin in their income. Yeah. Yep. Uh, because they, well, because life happens. It just, and you, and you gotta be able to adapt to it without, uh.
Becoming a servant to the master mm-hmm. The lender relationship. Yeah.
Patrick: You really have to, you really have to focus on that. Yeah. I, I, I love that. And I think one thing you’re highlighting here on the Pay Yourself first concept is it’s something that’s illustrated in the 401k. The 401k is one of those things that just sucks people’s money out before it ever gets to their bank account.
[00:44:00] And shockingly, they get to retirement and they’ve got a million bucks in their account. So it’s like as many of those things as you can automate, if you can automate on the front end. Your savings account, your emergency fund, your brokerage account, you know, as a, an additional source of liquidity. You know, your retirement savings, you know, whatever.
We want to, to build up that, that pool of cash. And then it gives you freedom and flexibility if your boss is giving you a hard time and you hate work. Quit your job. You have six months of savings in the bank, you know, now you can go find a new job. Uh, that you don’t have that stress and you don’t have to worry about it.
So, I dunno, I, I think that, um, that, that wisdom is, is really good to just pay yourself first, find lots of opportunities to make sure that you are setting yourself up for success and not, not funding. We, you know, um Yep. Go ahead.
Mike: We have called, we, we have mislabeled the emergency fund as the [00:45:00] emergency fund for so long.
Mm-hmm. It is, uh, it, uh, it is really, it’s really not an emergency fund. It’s a replacement fund. Mm-hmm. Or it’s a freedom fund. That’s the two things. It really is. I mean, we say it’s an emergency, but emergencies like. Most of the time non emergencies. Yeah. You know, like you’re like, like you need new tires on your car.
Well, you knew as soon as you bought the car that you needed new tires eventually. Yep. The refrigerator goes out. Well, it’s 16 years old and I’ve had it for 13 years. I knew it was going out soon. Right? Mm-hmm. So it’s really, the emergency fund’s really replacement, but it’s also a freedom fund, like you said.
Yeah. Like if something is not going right in my life and I need space to get it right. It allows me the freedom to not to step away from a situation, get it right, use my Freedom Fund to be able to get back into, you know, revenue producing activities.
Patrick: Yeah. This is great, Mike. There’s so [00:46:00] many things that we can talk about, I think.
Is there anything else we should, we should look at? Because I, I, I’m just thinking of. Uh, your book, the one of a kind financial plan. I, I think it’s a critical place for people to start. So many of the things we’ve talked about here, I, I hope we’re opening up people’s eyes to like, man, there’s a, there’s a different way, uh, out there in the marketplace than, uh, everybody else that I’ve been talking to.
So, anything else we should discuss before we, before we wrap up? Well, the only other
Mike: thing I’d say is that, you know, I, I don’t think there’s, there’s a substitute for wisdom. And people just like I mentioned discernment earlier, but you just, people, when you deal with your money, I would say you need to trust your gut.
Mm-hmm. Now, if, if it, if your gut is uneducated, it’s gonna tell you that it, that, that you want a donut, right? Yeah. But an edu an an educated gut will not crave a donut. It’ll crave something that’s actually gonna provide sustainability to [00:47:00] you. Mm-hmm. Uh. I would say, so I would say trust your gut, but get educated.
I would say seek out opportunities, whether it’s like the personal financial planning class that we teach at Old, old Dominion. If it’s the, if it’s like something within your church, like financial peace, right? Mm-hmm. If it’s something out there, trust, you know, get educated, then trust your gut. Then do seek advice.
Yeah. But seek advice that is on your terms, that is not on the terms of the person sitting on the other table. And if the person is not willing to fully explain how they get compensated, don’t, don’t
Patrick: sign
Mike: anything.
Patrick: Right? Yep. Yeah. When they say there’s no fees, they’re, they’re not doing it for free. Right.
Somebody is paying them somehow, some way. And, uh. Uh, that’s, that’s, that’s so good. So I think some other resources, people should check out ideas by mike.com. [00:48:00] You’ve got so many good links to your, your media there. Uh, I think that’s, that’s fantastic. And then, uh, we’ve also got one oak financial.com. You know, if somebody’s listening to this going, Hey, I need some help.
I need somebody to point me in the right direction with my planning. I think that’s a, a fine, a fan, fantastic resource. Anything else that people should be looking at? Uh, as far as,
Mike: I would just, yeah, I’d just say Ideas by Mic is my podcast. So like, if you want to hear more, more interviews, like Patrick and I, Patrick, I’ll probably have you on my podcast.
Yeah, that’d be fun. Right? Because that’d make a lot of sense. Uh, is, is, I use My Bike is the podcast one. Oak Financial is the number one Oak financial.com. So don’t spell out one. It’s the number one because you are one of a kind. It’s the number one oak financial.com. And then if you wanna know more about me, like we talked about, like the book or if you wanna know about like personal financial planning course, just go to mike milligan.com.
[00:49:00] So, uh, so really, really, really a couple different outlets to connect with what we’re doing
Patrick: to try to help people live a one of a kind life. This is, this is great, Mike, and we’ll have links to all of that in the show notes. I think that is, um, fantastic. And there, there’s just a few things. You know, when I think about the stakes that, that are at hand, you know, if we, if we don’t take action on these things, we’ll just continue to feel overwhelmed by the complex financial systems out there, uh, which exposes us to risk of making poor decisions and costing us freedom and wealth.
And well be-being in the long term. Then we’re just living a life disconnected from our, our true values. Where on the opposite end of that coin, I think about success. You know, we’ve got clarity and confidence and peace of mind. I think that’s what we’re all looking for anyway. Uh, we’ve got financial strategies that we understand and we can implement that really supports this, this one of a kind life that, uh, we’re, we’re building and then we get to enjoy the wealth.
Uh, we get to enjoy the, the health and the impact. And the [00:50:00] community that we’re creating, and I know I’ve got those in the wrong order. It’s the community, the health, and the impact, uh, uh, the qi, which, uh, I think is, is great. And so, uh, I, I love the work you’re doing. I think this is important. I think this conversation matters for, uh, our industry.
And, uh, I really just appreciate, uh, all the good work you’re doing.
Mike: I appreciate you too. Thanks for having me old today.
Patrick: Yes, you’re welcome. Thank you. Thanks so much for joining me for this conversation with Mike Milligan. I hope it gave you a fresh perspective on what it really means to build not just wealth, but wellbeing.
Because your financial strategy aligns with your purpose. Everything else starts to click into place. If you got value out of today’s episode, it would mean a lot if you shared it with someone who could use this message. And if you left a quick rating or review wherever you’re listening, it helps more entrepreneurs find the show and become a part of this community.
And if you’re ready to take the next steps in your own strategy, visit vital strategies.com/tax. You’ll find resources, tools, and proven frameworks to help you minimize your [00:51:00] taxes, keep more of what you earn, and use that wealth to build a life that truly fits you. And remember, you’re a vital entrepreneur.
You’re vital because you’re the backbone of our economy, creating opportunities, driving growth, and making an impact. You’re vital to your family building, abundance and freedom in every area of life, and you’re vital to me because you’re committed to growing your wealth, leading with purpose, and creating something truly great.
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