090 | The 3 Business Phases Every Entrepreneur Must Master to Avoid Burnout with Leslie Hassler

Patrick: [00:00:00] Today’s episode is going to hit especially hard for any entrepreneur who’s ever felt like their business was running them rather than the other way around. Our guest, Leslie Hasler, is the founder of Your Biz Rules and a true force in the world of small business transformation. With nearly two decades of entrepreneurial experience and a deep background in finance, marketing, and leadership, Leslie doesn’t just help businesses grow.
She helps ’em grow with intention, the kind of growth that creates time, space, and freedom, not just bigger to-do lists. She’s worked with business owners through her books, resources, and consulting to unlock consistent profits, implement smarter systems, and build [00:01:00] businesses that support the life the business owner actually wants to live.
And while her resume is impressive as an author and speaker, it’s her bus ability.
And while her resume is impressive as an author and speaker, it’s her ability to simplify the complex and bring balance to chaos that really sets her apart. Now, before we dive in, I want to remind you that time is running out this year for you to be able to work with us to develop a custom tax strategy If you’re listening to this because you want to grow your business and you’re ready to start keeping more of what you earn.
We’d love to help head to vital strategies.com/tax where our team can work with you directly to create a custom tax strategy that aligns with your goals and helps you build real lasting wealth. Alright, let’s get into this conversation with Leslie Hasler.
Leslie, I’m so excited for you to join us here today. We are, uh, [00:02:00] going to really get into the discussion around having a fractional C-suite and what that means for bringing that into our, our growing business, uh, that’s looking to skin in the importance of that. So Leslie Hasler, thank you so much for joining us here today.
I think this is going to be a fantastic conversation.
Leslie: Thank you for having me. I’m excited to be here.
Patrick: Yeah. So you’ve, uh, literally written the book on, uh, this topic, which I think is, uh, fantastic and we’ll, we’ll get to that in a, in a minute and point people to that at the end. But I’d like to just start off and think about the, the problems that our, our listeners are facing.
Um, you know, I think the first thing is that the business is profitable, but growth feels chaotic, right? Like, yeah, you know, I’m having to hire and I’ve got all these new problems and building systems, and it’s like, man. I’ve lost track of how my team’s performing and there’s just, you know, we can start to see these bottlenecks mm-hmm.
Uh, show up in our, our lives and start to slow. Everything down. And then I also can feel stuck in the business. Like it’s exhausting. I feel like I just have to work harder to keep the [00:03:00] machine moving and I can’t take vacation and it’s, uh, that’s no fun. I don’t wanna sacrifice my, my life or my health. One of the things that we talk a lot about is, uh, you know, over my shoulder it says, make life great.
We, we really wanna build businesses and build wealth that, uh, helps us live a, an optimized life versus, uh, having more zeros in our, our bank account. And then I think the. The last problem, the philosophical problem is entrepreneurs shouldn’t have to choose between, I’ll say, scaling and sanity. Uh, profitability and peace should go, should go hand in hand.
So I am, I’m thankful that you’re here and we get to, uh, talk more about this today.
Leslie: Yeah. We’ve got so much to unpack with what you just shared. Um, it’s the classic growth problem mm-hmm. And everything that you talk about, especially when you’re like the philosophical problem of it all. I think that’s what we’re trying to tackle with Scaling Rich as a philosophy of business growth, scalability, but also one that improves your quality of life.
Detracts from it or declines it mm-hmm. As you go through your [00:04:00] entrepreneurial journey. So I’m excited to see where we’re, where we’re gonna go with all this.
Patrick: Yeah. This is gonna be good. Can you give us a little bit of your background and how you really developed, uh, your firm and your process? And then, uh, then we can start to dig into the plan to, to fix some of these things we identified.
Leslie: Sure. I have been an entrepreneur for 18 years. I came into entrepreneurship as an accidental entrepreneur, which means that on Wednesday I found out I wasn’t going to have a job on Monday, and I opened up a company. Yay. And that while I did a little bit of prep work is four days of prep work, right?
Mm-hmm. So I think that’s how a lot of people come into business and we come into business because we’re good at something we do, and uh, we have a high freedom dream. We want that ability to control our desks. To control our success, have some say over our life. Um, and that’s what brings us into it. But 18 years in business, I have seen a lot of different things, um, have gone through oh eight and oh nine.
That was really fun in my first business, um, your [00:05:00] business is actually my, my third technical business. But the one in the middle, the second business, it was like. I think I killed it in about nine months. Um, it just, it wasn’t a viable thing. So I say two and a half businesses, right? Yeah. The first. Two attempts in business and, and the first business, look, we, we went up, we went down, we came back up.
Right? Mm-hmm. Was successful by all means, but, uh, it sucked my soul dry. Mm-hmm. I often describe that business as a prison, not a playground.
Patrick: Yeah.
Leslie: And it, at that time, I didn’t have the answers I have today. If I. Could tell if the then me or today me could go back and tell the then me what to do. It might be a totally different story, but then I might not be here.
So I’m exactly where I need to be for our conversation today. But I, it’s entrepreneurship is such a journey mm-hmm.
Patrick: That
Leslie: I don’t think we’re ever really done learning. Um, the minute that you feel like you’ve arrived is actually probably the minute you’re gonna stop [00:06:00] growing.
Patrick: Right. As
Leslie: a company. Um. And so I just, I think I wanna say that because it is part of the battle, it is part of that, that philosophical problem that you talked about of, you know, want not having to sacrifice one thing for the other.
Mm-hmm. That gets us in a little bit of a problem. And part of that is how we’re choosing to, to grow business. The rules that we’re putting around it and what we’re accepting as. Normal anymore. Mm-hmm. I think the hustle and grind has led a lot of people astray. And you and I were chitchatting, you know, beforehand and we’re like, how was day?
And I’m like, it’s a full day. And you’re like, it’s a full day. It’s, I totally understand where you’re coming from. Mm-hmm. And that is a good signal, but is it going to collapse me? And is it going to be something that is such day in and day out that it turns into burnout? Mm-hmm. That’s all about how you approach growth and scalability.
Yeah. There’s still, you know, growth and scalability [00:07:00] are very different. Um, knowing and understanding what they do in a business and knowing and understanding how to manage ’em actually is a really good entree to managing your overwhelm, your burnout, how it’s going to deplete you as a resource. Mm-hmm. Um, as you continue to, to evolve in your business.
Patrick: I love this. So I wanna, I want to touch on a few of these things that, that we’ve talked about, because one of the things that we like to discuss is, when I think about stress, stress is good. Okay? Let’s take work out of it for a second, but like, let’s, let’s think about somebody that’s training to run a marathon.
Okay? I don’t like running very much, but if I were to, if I were to run a marathon, I have to put stress on my body, right? Yeah. Like if I tried to get up the day of the marathon and go run the thing. Very low likelihood I’m, I’m going to finish it if I didn’t train. Mm-hmm. And so that training looks like I’ve gotta, I’ve gotta condition myself, I’ve gotta put the right amount of stress on my body so I can recover and then show up the next day and, and continue to perform.
And I’m gonna get [00:08:00] better in that scenario now. Too little training is sloth, right? And there’s no stress in that and there’s no growth, okay? Mm-hmm. Too much training, too much stress is burnout, right? Mm-hmm. And so I think that as entrepreneurs, we need to try to figure out how to live in that, that sweet spot.
And you, you touched on it in the context of like, you know, if we stop growing, that’s not good. We’re probably not going to plateau. There’ll be just a slow death in that, that scenario. And so I’m excited to get into this, this discussion about. Growing versus scaling because I think there’s a, a level of growth that happens and people might think they’re scaling, but what they’re doing is they’re just working really hard, you know?
Yeah. And to get to the next level, they just are like, I’m just gonna have to do more of what I’m currently doing to get this thing going. Versus, oh, hey, I need to build a system in a process and bring in the right team. To be able to help us, uh, get to where we want to go, because let’s just use an extreme example of [00:09:00] Jeff Bezos.
Uh, yep. So Amazon, right? Like he started this thing in his garage shipping some books, and if Jeff was responsible for getting all the books out the door, like yeah. Clearly Amazon has a limit. Now, Amazon has grown into this behemoth, right? Like they are shipping things like, I can order something in the morning and it, you know, can get to my door by the afternoon.
Uh, and that’s not Jeff’s fault, right? Like, it’s Jeff’s fault, but Jeff’s not delivering the thing. So, um, so that’s a biz that, that figured out how to scale and not just growth. So, yes, I, I’m not sure where we wanna start, but I’m looking forward to getting into. Uh, I’ll say the foundational pieces of like, how do I go from this, this business that is.
You know, killing me. Right? That I love the idea of scaling rich and doing it in the context of, uh, really, uh, having a life outside of my business. Like, I think that it’s super exciting. So what, where do we start? What, what is the foundation?
Leslie: Yeah. Let’s start with growth, scalability, and you touched on this key word, recovery.
Leslie (2): [00:10:00] Mm-hmm.
Leslie: You know, recovery. So let’s talk about these as three stages that happen in a business. Um. And that happened in a cycle almost, if you will. Mm-hmm. So growth for us and how we define, define it very traditionally, def definition is it’s, it’s a one-to-one ratio. So for every dollar I invest in my business, I’m probably gonna get a dollar back.
These tend to be the foundations of the business, the things you’ve got to get. In place in order to get to critical mass. So it’s that element of the somewhat staff, but it’s also some systems and some processes and you know, can you, do you have a marketing message and can you produce sales and do the clients come in reliably?
Those are all growth foundational. Type of things that you have to figure out. That’s stage one growth, let’s say.
Patrick: Mm-hmm.
Leslie: At some point in time, then you enter into e mode of scalability. Scalability is a bit more about a one to many. So for every dollar you’re gonna invest in your business, [00:11:00] you would expect.
Hundreds, if not thousands of dollars back at a whole different scale than you would in growth. Now, scalability, this is where we’re gonna talk about capacity. We’re gonna talk about efficiency, productivity. How are we going to get. All that’s possible for us, um, at this moment. And I, I wanna kind of share a client’s story to illustrate this.
Mm-hmm.
Leslie (2): So
Leslie: we had a client come in four years ago. They came in and did a business audit, something we do with every new client. And in doing the audit, I said like, Hmm, okay, your business is right about 500,000, 500,000 revenue. That’s. That’s a feat for a lot of people to get. That’s a really major milestone in the business.
And I was like, but I honestly think you could be at 2 million and I don’t think we’d have to hire.
Leslie (2): Mm-hmm.
Leslie: I think we’d have to change just a few things, be a little smarter where we’re putting our time, but I, I see 2 million in potential. And the client just kind of laughed. She’s like, no way. Not happening.
She was like, I can’t [00:12:00] get past 500,000. How in the world would I get to 2 million? I’m like, no, I’m pretty sure. 2 million. And so as we’re talking about this conversation, she did not believe it was possible.
Patrick: Mm-hmm.
Leslie: I said, wouldn’t it be fun to play? Like, are you just willing to play with me and let’s see what we can do.
And she said, okay. And I was like, now if you’re gonna play the game, you gotta do what I ask. Yeah. Just do what I ask. I’ll explain, but play the game with me. She goes, okay, so within nine months we took that business firm half a million to 2 million. Next year, she’s like, Uhuh, not gonna happen again. I was like, I don’t know, let’s play 2 million.
And then next year she’s like. Okay. Maybe I’m ready to grow again. I was like, phenomenal. What’s the number? What number are we playing to? She’s like, I don’t know, three or four. I was like, phenomenal. We are at three to 4 million in another year. So there is this. That to me is scalability. Mm-hmm. It’s being able to flip a switch and then get the exponential growth.
A lot of people, especially if you’ve been in the area that you’re at for a while, [00:13:00] chances are. You’ve got some scalability. Mm-hmm. Now recovery. That’s that, that I like to say, Dan. Uh, growth and scalability are like dance partners. Sometimes growth leads, sometimes scalability leads. Mm-hmm. But eventually the two dance partners need to go get some punch.
Mm-hmm. Need to take a song out. Right. It’s that rest in recovery. This is the step we miss. Mm-hmm. Is rest and recovery. Now it doesn’t have to last a long time. It could be. As shortest two weeks if that’s your, your working speed. Maybe it’s a little bit longer. We’ve had some teams where we’ve taken them through that kind of exponential change in growth and scalability, and you can just see that everyone’s breathing hard.
Mm-hmm.
Patrick: And
Leslie: the owner and I will look and we’re like, it’s time for recovery. Yeah. How long do you think that’s gonna be? I’m like, Hmm. I maybe as much as six months based on what we’re seeing in the people. And we’re gonna allow that team to recover, to regain their energy, to find their footing, right. And then be able to take off again.[00:14:00]
And so I think these three phases you have to really be thinking about. I mean, if you think about the S, the traditional S-curve mm-hmm. They’re kind of built into that, but. I don’t want any decline happening during the, these, you know, these phases, but it’s more of a flow going through them and allowing them to happen.
I think most times, um, we try to control because we’re tired and we’re burning out, so we constrict. Instead of allowing, because then our brains, that’s what feels safe.
Patrick: Mm-hmm. But
Leslie: like you said, if you’re not growing, it’s not so much that you’re gonna be plateauing and staying where you are. You are gonna be in this, this slippery slope down.
Patrick: Mm-hmm.
Leslie: So we have to balance those three things. And I think the conversation, to your point, most people think they’re talking scalability when they’re actually talking growth. Yeah. Um, hint, growth. Well, scale growth won’t get you out of cashflow issues if you’re having cashflow issues. It just happens to create more of them [00:15:00] unless you have some financial strategies to support.
Yeah. But there’s, you know, there’s these little nuances to growing and scaling that I don’t think you see until you are, you’ve worked with 10, 20, 40, 50 businesses and you’re like, ah, here it is. The signals are loud and clear. We are here. Yeah.
Patrick: Leslie, this is, this is so good and I want to touch on something you said and get your opinion on it.
Because I, I think this, there, there’s two pieces to this. I think belief is really important. Mm. If I don’t believe I’m, I can generate more than a half million dollars revenue, guess what? I’m, I’m not going to, that’s why I think belief is an important part. And then I think along with belief comes inertia, right?
Like a body in motion stays in motion and a body and rest stays in rest. And once we’re sort of moving on a path, it’s really. It can be challenging to change that and to start to, I’ll say scale it. We have to break out of our old molt, whether that’s where we’re currently at or the path we’ve been on.
We’ve gotta start doing [00:16:00] something different to, to get us there. And so. Yeah, I, I’d like to just hear you touch on those two pieces, like how do we change the, because I think these two things can tie together. Yeah. I’ve got a belief on how much revenue I can make, and then I also have a belief on how business should be done, and it’s like those two things can, can keep me stuck sort of in this, this rut that I’m in.
Yeah.
Leslie: Well, I think the first part is, and I you are. Completely true. I had somebody, a speaking engagement, go, what’s the biggest problem entrepreneurs have? And I was like, wow, what’s a loaded question? And I was like, oh, simple between our ears. Mm-hmm. It’s the mind whether you believe it, you know, as Henry Ford said, whether you’re where, whether you believe you’re right or not, you, you’re right.
You know, it’s kind of that instance. No matter what you believe, um, beliefs repeated over time become truths. Truths repeated over time become reality. And so we will talk ourselves into our own reality any day of the week. Now, the. Pleasure of that is we can work in reverse mm-hmm. And get a new reality if what [00:17:00] our reality isn’t serving us.
Um, but I do believe belief is the only thing I can’t give. Like it is the only thing I can’t have more of for a client than they have for themselves. Yeah.
Leslie (2): Because
Leslie: it is the single determinant of whether or not there’s success. Um, and we’ve just seen that play out. Time and time and time again. Yeah. So I do believe, I agree with you in in the belief factor, you have to be working on your belief.
You have to be working on the possibility and believing in. Possibility, if you will. Mm-hmm. Because it’s, um, it’s only at that point in time you’re going to continue to try or continue to learn. But I wanna talk about learning again in just a second.
Leslie (2): Yeah.
Leslie: I think the next part of what you’re talking about is the cursive success, if you will.
Marshall Goldsmith read a book, what Got You Here won’t get you there when they’re studying high performers. And why do high performers have such a hard time? Being successful again, it’s because they have [00:18:00] a hard time breaking down. Mm-hmm. What got them to where they are now. That plays true in a business.
All the stinking time. All the stinking time and everyone, we all have to go through it. I go through it. You go through it. Mm-hmm.
Leslie (2): Everybody
Leslie: goes through it. It’s just depending about where it is, what element of the business it shows up into. So I think this is one of the big mindset shifts that we have to start understanding.
So much of the old paradigm of business is about crossing a finish line, beating somebody else to the, to the end being first place. Right? So much of what we’re, uh, what we’re geared to is, is that kind of thinking. Now, I’m not saying everybody should get a participation award. Award either. Mm-hmm. What I am saying though is that.
Entrepreneurs universally have this habit of setting a finish line, whatever that finish line is getting to within six inches of it and then moving the finish line. Mm-hmm. So you [00:19:00] never actually get across. So it is that moment, and then if you do happen to get across you, you’re done. Right. You’ve, you’ve learned all there is to know new paradigm of businesses.
Based in this reality, that change is happening at such a exponential, almost uncontrollable rate. Mm-hmm. Uh, 2020 for instance, we know there was a lot of change, but I’m just gonna talk in digital transformation, the amount of digital technology transformation that happened in that year was worth five previous years.
A lot of stinking change.
Patrick: Yeah.
Leslie: Right. That’s a lot of change to go through. That is. Both the, um, unspoken truth that a lot of people bril against right now is the amount of change. But it is also your key to scaling your business in a way you never thought was possible. Mm-hmm.
Leslie (2): And at a
Leslie: rate you never thought was [00:20:00] possible.
And in a traditional old paradigm, if you’re gonna grow 14.4% year over year for five years, that’s when you double, you can double in six months. We’ve attached so much. Time binding. Mm-hmm. If time bounding, you know, deadlines and timelines to our success when we’re in an age to where that all goes away, and I’m kind of driving my, um, my team a little crazy with this.
I’m like, look, I know where we’re gonna be in in 18 months. Here’s clarity. Here’s where it is. But the next major goal is here. And people will go, well, is that in five years? I went, no, it’s not bound to time. It’s bound to change.
Patrick: Yeah. Yeah. And I think that’s, that’s so important. ’cause I see it in my business.
I see it in our clients’ businesses and the we, we go through these curves where we grow and then we get to a point and exactly like you were saying, the. We need to retool to be able to be built to go to the next level. [00:21:00] And that retooling piece, you know, that’s where all of the change happens and it becomes uncomfortable.
And, uh, I was having a discussion with a peer of mine. Uh, he’s in the mergers and acquisition space, and he was like, we like to bring the change in in like a three month period and just make. Really painful and get it all over with it at one period of time. Because if we stretch it out to nine months, people just get sort of worn out.
Uh, yeah, we’re in, they’re in change mode. It’s like, okay, cool. Like, yeah, here we go. Uh, let’s embrace it and get moving. So I think that’s. That’s fantastic.
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Leslie: So I think we do have to change our, our language around things.
Mm-hmm. So instead of it being that finish line, what if it was a journey? Mm-hmm. You know what, if we knew the ultimate destination that it was going to be, but we, we understood that we’ve got ways or Google maps on, you know, for the business, and those are your systems and your processes and your guardrails.
But at some point in time, we might hit a traffic jam and need to get off the freeway. Now, I don’t know too many [00:23:00] people that get upset about getting off the freeway and not having to sit there for an hour.
Patrick: Mm-hmm.
Leslie: Yet. Think about how married we are to our, we’re so attached to the how of something that when we might have to get off the freeway because there’s a traffic jam.
We get angry about getting off the freeway, even if it’s more profitable, quicker, less work. We’re so married to the house. Mm-hmm. So I do think we have to change our language. I like thinking about, um, entrepreneurship and growing business as a journey about the things we’re gonna learn, about the things that we’re gonna improve.
Um, I also think we have to, it’s so funny, we had a staff, two of our staff members were on vacation last. Last week I was out for half a week. I come back and my COOs having meetings and I just popped in today on it. I was like, Hey, I need to ask a quick question. And she goes, Hey, the team didn’t even tell you, but this went wrong.
And I was like, how phenomenal that I didn’t know. Yeah. Like, you know what went wrong? And they were, I was [00:24:00] like, oh, you should have told me, ’cause I would’ve calmed your fear because it’s all relative. Like there’s very little that we’re gonna be able to do that’s going to. Blow up the business because we have guardrails.
So it’s, we can change our conversation about making mistakes, we can change our conversation about learnings. Mm-hmm. We can allow for things to take the time that they’re going to take, whether it’s three minutes or 30 days. Um, so I think that’s number one is, is changing that conversation, which means we have to change the culture.
Patrick: Mm-hmm.
Leslie: We have to find other ways that we’re deriving value from doing some things. Checking off a to-do list, does that really produce value? I’m not sure, but a lot of people are addicted to it because it feels like achieving. Yeah. So we really have to think about things in a little bit of different way, and sometimes that’s a little more abstract thinking.
Sometimes it means just changing your KPIs, other time. It’s helping people understand the value that they’re bringing in [00:25:00] within an organization, and that includes the owner, I have to tell you. And it’s using those things to our advantage. So that we can take advantage of things like the exponential rate of change that’s happening right now.
How can we grow this business? How can we bust out of industry norms? Um, I like to say the industry norms. You’ve heard this story, I’m sure about, you know, the wife that cut off the leg of ham to go into the oven, and the husband’s like, why are you doing that? Have you heard this story?
Patrick: Yeah. Uh, yeah. Go ahead and tell it though.
’cause I think it, it’s really good for our listeners.
Leslie: So she’s like, I don’t know. She goes, her mother, she asks Heram, her mom goes, I don’t know. She’s like, let’s call grandma. They ask grandma, why are we cut off the end of the ham to put it in the oven? He goes, oh, because of my first oven was too small for the ham and I just kept doing it.
Patrick: Yeah. Yep, exactly. That’s standards.
Leslie: It’s just one person that got up and did something and another person said, Hey, I don’t have a better idea, so I’m gonna do that.
Patrick: Mm-hmm.
Leslie: Yeah. I think we have to start challenging those. [00:26:00]
Patrick: Yeah. And I think about your point on culture and how important that is and how that ties back to journey.
And I think about, uh, the people that we, we bring into our organization and when we’re taking everybody through the process, our, we, we. Communicate over and over again. Our job is to put you in a position to thrive, okay? Mm-hmm. And we want you to learn and grow and develop and have this, this sort of arc on your career.
And if you get to a point where you’re stuck, you’re obligated to go do what’s in your best interest and find something else. Yeah. And we’ll, we’ll cheer you on along the way, uh, because we feel like if we, we create this culture of developing people, people will want to be in our organization, be they’ll be showing up.
Uh, sort of ready to work because they’re like, Hey, I know I’m gonna end up better than I, I started here. And so I think about that. And if we put the, the employee in a position to thrive, yeah, they’re a join their work, they’re producing for the client, which is great. And when the client’s happy and we have, [00:27:00] you know, uh, profitable work going on, then we’re doing well as an organization as well.
So I, I think all of those things seem to, to align and really fit into that, that journey. Piece of the equation, like mm-hmm. Yeah. Let’s all grow and develop together and yeah. I like removing it makes me a little nervous. ’cause I do like to, to grow and have a deadline and, you know, things get done in the timeframe you have to get ’em done in Yeah.
You know, is a, i, I don’t know if that’s the preto. Principle or there’s something along those lines that, you know, um, sort of states that to be true. So I’m like, well, I I like a deadline. ’cause it sort of moves us along. But yeah, I really, this this conversation around like a journey and culture is, is resonating.
So, um, well
Leslie: even with the deadline concept, think of it about the forest and the trees. So can you see a horse for the trees kind of thing. And I, there’s a Japanese phrase that also triggers in my mind when I talk about this, about bamboo, which is firmly rooted enough. But flexible to sway in the wind.
Leslie (2): Mm-hmm.
Leslie: And there’s that dichotomy, right? That’s what [00:28:00] the forest and the trees think I think about. So on a forest level, on a tree level where rather the tree level, yeah, sure. Have deadlines, right? Because whatever you need positive tension to create motion. So create deadlines, that’s positive tension.
But the forest, right? That’s maybe where you have. You are not so time bound in there because you’re time bound at this micro level that you can allow the macro level to move at what speed it wants to move. Mm-hmm.
Leslie (2): So maybe
Leslie: that’s another way to think about it, because believe me, we’re deadline driven in the office, but we, it’s just ’cause we know you’re gonna.
If you have 10 hours to do something, you’re gonna take 10 hours. If you’ve got four, you’re gonna take four. So why not do it in four?
Patrick: Yeah, absolutely. And I also thinks there’s something to call ’em habits, consistent activity versus a, a goal And, and I think about a goal might be a desire where a habit or activity or process is almost certainly going to get me to.
That goal and, and [00:29:00] I use my, let’s just go back to my marathon example, right? Yeah. Like I can tell you with a pretty high degree of certainty, if I follow a training plan where I’m running three or four times a week getting proper nutrition, rest, hydration, I’m going to accomplish my goal. And so it’s like, now it might.
There could be a setback along the way, right? Yeah. I could get injured, you know, it could be the marathon gets canceled because there’s a storm or something along those lines, and it pushes it out and those things happen. But I’m still prepared to, you know, accomplish the goal when the timeframe comes.
And so I, I think that’s maybe an important piece too, is like getting dialed in on those little activities. If we can just show up and do on a regular basis and it gets us to, uh, you know, our outcome. And I’ve heard this saying and I love it. One of my mentors was, you know, I’m 25 years to an overnight success.
You know, people would be like, how did you do it? And he is like, well, I showed up for 25 years and it all to sort of worked out. And it’s like, it’s, uh, that’s good. So, um, very good. [00:30:00] Okay. So what’s next In our process of scaling and, and growing and sort of developing our business.
Leslie: I think the way I would say, and it’s almost.
Well, I’m gonna put it at this. I think the name of the game is more about profitability than it is about necessarily revenue. Sure, you need some revenue to generate some profit, but profitability, if your eyes there, you can be profitable at a smaller number. Now, earlier, um, in our conversation you made that mention about, you know, choosing a smaller business for a higher quality of life or maybe.
You’ve got multiple demands on your time. You know, most of us at, at our age, uh, typically are having a younger generation to care for and an older generation to care for. Mm-hmm. And let me tell you, caring for the older generation takes a lot of time, effort, and energy. Um, we’ve done it in our family.
It’s a high priority. We’ll do it again. Mm-hmm. But. The reality of it is, is that if I give here, I don’t always have as much to give in my business. [00:31:00] Mm-hmm. And it’s a balancing act. So maybe in those periods I prioritize something other than growth and and revenue and I’m looking at profitability. Mm-hmm.
Leslie (2): Because
Leslie: I don’t wanna like abandon my business. That’s not what I’m, my concept of it is, but it is this whole other. Uh, emphasis on profitability. Mm-hmm.
Leslie (2): You know,
Leslie: the, I did some research and I was like, okay, what is good profit? Because I think we all talk about what’s good profitability. Yeah. And the industry standard definition is 10 to 20%.
Now I’m not gonna knock profitability. You have enough of a volume and, and great, you know, 10% of 10 million. That’s nothing to, to, you know, laugh about.
Patrick: Right. However,
Leslie: my question is what it, why can’t it be. 30 to 50% profitability.
Patrick: Mm-hmm.
Leslie: And how can we be building businesses to be at the 30 to 50% profitability, both to the benefit of the owner and to the team and to the longevity of [00:32:00] the business there.
Um, when you are placing so much more. Emphasis on that. You’re able to do things like build cash reserves. Mm-hmm. You get to come to people like you and help us save a lot of money. I tell people all day long, I make you a ton of money. Mm-hmm. But I’m not your tax guy. I’m not your tax girl. I don’t know the tax code.
You know, our clients live all over the nation, and let me tell you, it’s really different. Yeah.
Patrick: State
Leslie: to state to state to state. But what I, what we’re good at is making you money.
Patrick: Yeah.
Leslie: And what a great choice to be able to get to go mitigate that tax. Yeah.
Patrick: But the,
Leslie: the truth is that is our focus mm-hmm.
Is I am looking for the optimal, optimal level of profitability. For the business, not necessarily for the industry, which I think is really interesting because we’ve had product-based businesses, manufacturing clients, services clients, and to see that profitability number go from. Five or 10% to 30 or 40 or even 54 at a high level of revenue [00:33:00] that is very successful.
That’s an operationally efficient machine. Yeah, right. That you can do so much good with. Um, and that’s where profit planning comes into play and things like Profit First and, and other strategies and that come in there. But I do think we have to change the conversation. Um, I could care less in some ways about revenue.
There’s zeros in my book. But I do care about what comes all the way down to the bottom line, because that’s what creates impact.
Patrick: Yeah. Leslie, this, you’re preaching to the choir here, because I will have people be like, yeah, we’re at 4 million, and I’m like, yeah, is that bottom line or top line? Because yeah, if you’re 4 million top line, I’ve seen this, I’ve seen $4 million of top line and zero profit, and it’s like, yep.
Why would you put yourself through the hassle of owning a business that has no profit? You’re maybe taking a wage, but you’ve got all this stress, all this hassle. You’re one of the lowest paid employees in, or lowest paid stakeholders [00:34:00] in the entire equation. We should fix that, or you should stop doing it.
You know? And so I, I really do appreciate that. And I also think there’s something too, we have these conversations regularly with, um. Growing the business, you know, because there’s a level of, you know, depending on where you want, you, where you want to go and what your goals are. And I like to be intentional with these goals.
’cause sometimes we can get caught up with that, that like finish line up and to the right. Like, I wanna get to a hundred million dollars exit. I’m like, for what purpose? You know, if your kids don’t know you, you’re on your fourth wife, like, that’s no good. You know? Yeah. And so I, I think having those conversations around like, what, what are you?
Let’s understand what’s important to you personally, and make sure that the business goals align with that. Because sometimes it can be like, I wanna be, you know, spend time with my young kids. Yeah. And then I see you over here working 120 hours in your business. It’s like those things aren’t matching up and you’re already bringing home a few million bucks a year.
Like, let’s maybe figure out some systems [00:35:00] processes, uh, so we don’t have to keep living that way. So I, I think. There’s so many different directions this could go off of. This is we don’t have enough time. Uh, maybe we’ll have you back and we’ll do it again, but so can we talk through like maybe how to bring in, you know, what is the fractional C-Suite model?
How can I, how can I incorporate this idea into my business? Because I think I love this when I think about, man, if I had to go hire A CFO, that’s expensive. If I had to go hire A COO I’m not there yet. But yeah, man, I, I love this. This fractional piece and we’re seeing this in the marketplace in general, like my IT is fractional.
Yeah. I can bring in really high powered it for a fraction of the cost. My marketing I can do instead of bringing it in-house and trying to hire everybody. I can hire a firm that has all the capability. And I think the same thing is true in our sort of financial leadership models as well. So can you talk a little bit about how this can really help us unlock our capacity?[00:36:00]
Yeah, I would love to.
Leslie: So that’s exactly what we say at your vis roles. We’re basically your fractional C-suite before you can afford to hire all of that leadership. And with that, we tend to be with our clients for quite a few years, um, several years. And what we have found is that every business needs some C-suite leadership, some support because the owner is.
Awesome. The owner is intelligent and great and does a really good job, but the owner is one person with one mind, and usually that one mind has about 45 different demands upon it. Mm-hmm. So you need another set of eyes. What we have started to see as we’ve been doing this and serving our [00:37:00] clients, this is what this way is that for the most part, most every business has.
One major need, and I’ll say that tends to be financial or operations or mm-hmm. Hr, those tend to be the big three that they’ll come into, but every major need that you have is not just about. Operations. So if it’s an operational need, it’s not really just about operations. Usually there’s a financial component.
Sure. Usually there’s a team component, usually, and you’re seeing the daisy chain of the web, especially if you’ve been in business for a while, your, your problems aren’t necessarily googleable. You know, you can’t google that answer anymore. Mm-hmm. Because it’s become so complicated or intricate or interconnected.
So by. Our firm is able to basically serve the major need, but then when you need X, we just bring in the other teammate and they work with you for that period of time to get the work done. And we have financials always running in the background because like you, I already said, we focus on the profit.
Yeah.
Leslie (2): [00:38:00] We
Leslie: focus on the change and the growth and results, and we need to be tracking the money. In order to be able to do that and to pay for. All those other things that growth and scalability is gonna demand for us. And so what we’ve seen is, is it is number one, amazingly collaborative. We’re partners with our clients and sometimes I’ll have a client that will say, I think sometimes you care for about my business more than I might in the moment.
And you’re like, well, yeah, because I don’t have the emotional baggage, right? I don’t have the emotion around an issue. I can just, we can look at it strategically and say, is this good for the business? Is it good for the owner? Is it good for the team? And then find the right solution in order to be able to do there.
But if we have somebody, um, I’m thinking like of one client where I’m, you know, we have a fractional CFO and then now we’ve been developing their team to be able to bring in leads into the business and now we’re. We’re going into the operational space and we’re implementing like monday.com [00:39:00] with that.
Mm-hmm. With that team to get them to be a little bit more of a central hub and, and get greater efficiencies. So it is that way that we’re able to ebb and flow with the needs of the business. And for the most part, we can capture it all with, you know, one stop shop. Um, and if we need. Outside expertise, which I’m not gonna do your social media.
Mm-hmm. My team won’t do your social.
Patrick: Yeah.
Leslie: We’re gonna partner with those companies. Mm-hmm. So that you’re getting a greater efficient, let’s see, you’re getting a greater product at the end of the day. So, um, we have found it to be infinitely fun. We like the variety, but we like really starting to see the change that happens in our clients’ businesses because now they can grow.
They can grow faster. Mm-hmm. But they have also grown more profitable because we tend to represent, you know, a fraction if you were gonna hire four C-suite people. Right. Or a fraction of that. Right. And so it plays into everything we’ve been talking about and keeping a business nimble and keeping it profitable, [00:40:00] keeping the cash flow flowing.
Because we don’t know what’s gonna happen next month. We don’t know what’s gonna happen next year, but we can set up the business to be fiscally strong enough to weather whatever. Is going to come. Yeah.
Patrick: And
Leslie: to take advantage of the opportunities that come shortly after the shock.
Patrick: Sure.
Leslie: You know, we all have the shock, but to, honestly, there’s a shock and then there’s opportunity and you need cash.
Mm-hmm. A lot of times to take advantage of the opportunity it comes after the shock. So that’s really the resiliency mm-hmm. That we’re looking to build into companies. And I think one of the, you know, long term benefits of, of working with us.
Patrick: Yeah. That’s fantastic. And I wanna just highlight one of the things that you, you brought up and it, it really all ties back to this profitability, but understanding your financials and, and how that ties back to your operations.
’cause it’s really hard to make operational decisions if I don’t, if I don’t know where I’m at on the, the financial map, so to speak. Yep. You know what my metrics are for. You know, everything from gross [00:41:00] profit to, you know, my net income is the business owner, utilization rates, all these other things. Like, there’s so many factors that come in there and it’s like we can start to glean that data from our financial statements that if we don’t have that information clear, uh, it’s really hard.
And, you know, we, we work with a lot of very successful business owners in lots of different arenas, and there’s not one that shows up and goes. Yeah. I don’t have my books up to date. I couldn’t tell you how we’re doing this year. They all know. They all know how they’re doing. They all know where they’re at according to their forecast.
Yeah, and that’s another thing, a forecast, all of those pieces are just. Um, are really important to be able to, to run the business well, and I think that can be hard, you know, because I, I see, you know, the financials go through this evolution as well. It’s like you might be the bookkeeper, right? Yeah. You know, when you first get started, uh, and then you might outsource to a bookkeeper and then you might bring in a staff accountant and then, you know, it’s just been happening a certain way.
And if we, if we think about, you know, really the value of our business, because [00:42:00] at the end of the day, whether we’re interested in selling our business or not. Super strong cash flow to the bottom line makes our business more valuable. You know, so it’s like, let’s just focus on that cash flow piece and a valuable business.
And, uh, then we can decide someday down the road if we wanna sell it. Like we’re, we can do that, it’s an option versus if it’s a just, there’s just no way. So this has been so good. Leslie, I, I know we are running short on time. Is there anything else we should talk about before we dig into, uh, some of the opportunities that people have to, to connect with you and learn more?
Leslie: Um, there’s so much, but like you said, we will probably have to have a whole nother session. Um, because it’s the businesses as you, as you grow, you get a little bit more complicated. You get a little more enriched, if you will. And so I think there’s so many aspects in. What we’ve talked about is you’re never really done.
At the end of the day, if you can really adopt a learning attitude and a learning culture, [00:43:00] you’re likely going to find your next opportunity versus being closed to it. And I think that alone could open up so many people’s doors to something even more beautiful than what they may have, uh, today. So we’ll have to come back more, but I’ll leave you with those parting words.
Yeah,
Patrick: that’s fantastic. And I, I think when we think about learning, one of the best. Places for people to go is you’ve given us a free resource, your biz rules.com. So that’s your Y-O-U-R-B-I-Z rules.com uh slash vital.
Leslie: Yes.
Patrick: And you’ve got a free gift for us there. Uh, I’ll leave that as a surprise for, for people to check out.
And then I think they should also buy your book and then there’s an opportunity to. If people are like, I’m ready. I need what Leslie has, I need to sort of figure out this, um, this operations finance piece I need to get my business to, to really grow and scale to the next level. Uh, there’s opportunities to connect with you two to work more and just.
Learn more about, uh, everything you’ve got going on. So, um, your [00:44:00] current book is first, this, then that, and then I think you’ve got another book, uh, scaling Rich that’s on its way that, uh, people can also get on the wait list for to, to sign up or maybe even pre-order. So we’ll have links to all of that in the show notes.
But this has been, uh, this has been wonderful and just a few things for, uh, you to listen to as, as the entrepreneur to think about, uh, you know. If we don’t change, we, we stay in this reactive mode. We stay tied to the business, uh, profit’s leaking out all over the place. We don’t have time or energy to sort of fix those things, and we get sort of stalled out and we get burnout, get tired of our, our business, and I’ll say the turnover of the team, you know, they’re, they’re also frustrated.
And then we think about what the other side of that coin looks like. Having predictable profits and sustainable pace of growth, uh, sort of being on that journey that we talked about, uh, that, that sounds exciting. Having a well aligned team that runs without constant oversight. Like you, you mentioned, you know, you went away.
There’s a problem that got dealt with like that, that’s a beautiful thing. Uh, you can. [00:45:00] Think about going on vacation and not having to, to plug in and check in. And speaking of, I’m, I’m flying out to Alaska tonight and I’m gonna be out in the wilderness. Even if the team tried to get ahold of me, there’s no way to get ahold of me.
So those are my favorite vacations. I know I’m, the cool thing is I’ve got a great team and they’ll, they’ll do a great job while I’m out. Yeah. And then we end up with a business that serves our lives. Right. Not, not our lives serving the business. And so we think that’s. Uh, that’s awfully important where we, we really transition from overwhelmed operator to, you know, being a visionary leader that, uh, can step back and enjoy their, their quality of life.
So Leslie, I think this work that you’re doing is very, very important. Uh, again, I encourage everybody to go check out your b rules.com/vital, uh, to get the free resources that, uh, Leslie’s provided and learn more about all the good work that she’s doing there.
Leslie: Well, thanks for having me. It’s been a blast.
Patrick: Yeah, thank you. Thanks so much for tuning into this episode of the Vital Wealth Strategies Podcast. I hope you found as much value in this conversation as [00:46:00] I did, and if you did, I’d love for you to share it with someone who could benefit from the insights Leslie brought to the table today. Whether it’s a fellow entrepreneur, a client or friend in the grind, let’s spread the knowledge and lift each other up.
If you’re ready to take the next step and structure a tax strategy that actually works for you. Not against you. Our team is ready to help. Just head to vital strategies.com/tax. Let’s start building your personalized plan to keep more of what you earn and grow your wealth with intention. And remember, you’re a vital entrepreneur.
You’re vital because you’re the backbone of our economy, creating opportunities, driving growth, and making an impact. You’re vital to your family, creating abundance in every aspect of life. And you’re vital to me because you’re committed to growing your wealth, leading with purpose, and creating something truly great.
Thank you for being a part of this incredible community of vital entrepreneurs. I appreciate you and I look forward to having you back here next time on the Vital Wealth Strategies Podcast, where we help entrepreneurs minimize their taxes, master wealth, and optimize their [00:47:00] lives.